Frustrations?

[popstarfreas]

While Discord can often be a place that people vent their frustrations with the server, for those people who are 100% serious about using their time to make a change rather than simply complain, the forum is the best place to discuss any important points, it ensures that the discussions are seen by me even if I was not around when they occurred, and ultimately becoming a staff member is the best path for people who want to enact the results of said discussions.

People are free to complain on Discord if they want, so long as you are not doing it maliciously or personally insulting anyone. Ultimately the future of the server is in the hands of those willing to put in the time and money, both of which are very scarce resources in communities like ours.

For people who don’t know, we have a supporters channel on Discord and I 100% always respond to supporters who want to talk with me there, or for supporters that prefer not to use Discord, a PM or DM on the forum is fine too. Even if it takes me some time to get around to it, I do eventually respond. Whatever the question put to me there, I try my best to say something in response.

Unfortunately, my time is extremely limited, so I rely on the staff members to highlight things they need from me and I have given out as much control as is necessary for those to make changes. As it stands now, we do not have anyone who is particularly active who has the development skills needed to take over from the services I actively worked on, so all my time that I can spare for the server is taken up by maintenance and admin tasks, a thankless endeavour, but ultimately the most important tasks, leaving the more challenging tasks, which I’m sure people want to see done, unactionable. This is why many new features are currently not able to be completed, and the few that do are likely to be those that I am personally interested in taking part in.

For people who have something to say on this matter, you can do so below if you wish.

[pwrwq]

That’s why we should get more staff people, to help out on this matter, and to promote those eventually to help with those tasks. That is why I wanted to be a moderator, so I can eventually help with those tasks and help the server not struggle. This server has less than a dozen people who are staff, and only around 3-4 are actively interacting with the code, and several other servers have significantly more (at least 2 dozen or so, with a bit more staff helping with the code.)

The fact that the server is not getting updates, lack of staff interference in most cases (with mainly Glaisa and Big Russ being the most active staff memebers) is why the server is declining. Just look on terraria-servers.com. We used to be #1 on the board, now we are #3 (now #2). While this does not seem like much of a difference, the top 2 (Teeria Legends and Penguin Games) have larger staff amounts, more active staff memebers, and actually on 1.4.4. While some issues with lack of staff can’t be helped (i.e mental health issues and irl issues that come with life in general), having a larger staff to spread things out and not compress it and force it on one person can cause burnout and stress. Trust me, I have seen it firsthand and secondhand.

I’m not saying to get staff on willy-nilly, but it seems like if we want more players on buying patreon and becoming staff members, there needs to be more active and plentiful staff interaction, and some changes to the rules are necessary as well so that people feel more welcome and more accepted here and not worried about breaking the rules unintentionally for something they said off-the-cuff.

I’m not trying to attack you or discredit your work on the server, I’m just asking for some minor changes and reformations that could go a long way and keep the server from fading into obscurity.

Edit: made the ending less harsh

[popstarfreas]

I agree, but unfortunately no one else on the staff team that I have asked has been able to provide any input on ongoing applications. And that means ultimately it comes down to me which is not ideal.

I wouldn’t say based on numbers, that the server is declining, it has just stagnated. On that website for me, it says DG is #2, we were basically never #1 because I never specifically made voting of importance, just being as near to the top as possible is enough. By player count we have for a long time been #1, but I don’t really see any of these things as measures of whether the server is doing good or bad. For me the most important factor is how many new users we are seeing become active, and how many of those stay. “Community stickiness” is one term for it.

But the ask is definitely big, maybe bigger than anyone realises. You are asking of some person for a lot of their time and most importantly expertise, traits that are hard to find unless you have time to seek them out. Though this is partially due to time issues of not being able to talk to people and find out who has these skills, I don’t know of anyone who has the skills needed to take on any of the development tasks that are currently unactionable due to lack of people to do them.

[pwrwq]

Yes, some of what I said may be a bit much. Maybe a smaller start is to maybe change the rules and be a bit more persistent on asking staff, not just for my application, but for others that I am sure have applied (I know there are a few that I am vaguely aware about, but yeah, maybe a bit more change weekly, as I am sure there might be some input from staff if you ask around, maybe also from some well-respected members as well who are not staff)
Maybe also host a event for people who want to apply to staff and see where that gets? Wouldn’t hurt to ask more or to try and do stuff that the community would receive quickly (the rule changing one and some maybe anticheat stuff as well, I probably can see like a command to temporarily disable it or something, although I am no avid coder nor expert on the anticheat), but it feels like it causes more annoyance than help.

[Rafaelgamerplay_raf]

The community have been frustrated not only because of the lack of server maintance and reworks, but also because of the lack of comunication, about the behind the scenes. It has been a long time since the last update about how the server is going, it just felt like you abandoned the server. We haven’t seen either much interest about the server requiring moderators and developers lately. Not to mention that the strict style of life we’ve been living on the community because of not only the set of rules, but also because of the way you’ve been dealing with the community, have discouraged many of us on putting any effort on the server, really. I’ve thought many times on becoming moderator, but at the end, I just gave up because I really didn’t want to follow the strict set of rules and because of the lack of apparent care with the server and also because of the fear of making a silly mistake/joke that could get me deposed. It really feels sad to know that some moderators have been deposed due to making some jokes with their mod powers, not to mention it was only ONCE that they did such act, and the act in question didn’t even affect the player’s gameplay, they were joking with each other only, just a community interacting with themselves, which was something beautiful on DG before you started to intervene on those questions in particular. This community needs, requires some lenience from you Rofle, and I stand on my point that part of this were caused by the fear you put on this server, making it feel like a ditactorship. Your mechanic actions of just kicking, banning and deposing people because of stuff that really is so small that doesn’t even affect the server at all just made everything worse. We’re here to have fun, and not to worry about following strictly many set of rules. By the way, I think I’m not the only who thinks this way on the server, pretty much all the veterans over here also has the same thoughts I have.

Also, if there isn’t any volunteer to make the necessary rework on the set of rules of the server, then I’d like to volunteer myself to do this. I’ll try my best, alongside the community (via constantly asking on either Forums or Discord for the current player base about which changes are necessary and if the proposals are good enough), to make those rules more fair and less exploitable so people doesn’t get banned for a little thin piece of paper.

[popstarfreas]

@Rafaelgamerplay_raf

It has been a long time since the last update about how the server is going, it just felt like you abandoned the server.

If you mean an update from me specifically, the last things I posted were:
Survival TrueSSC v1.6.0 and DTP Maintenance that was last month, nothing other than maintenance has happened in the last month, not sure how that counts as abandonment, I can’t post every week that per usual I fixed a few bugs but nothing else. The two people that have the skills required to do major updates are both busy and so there’s nothing to say.

@Rafaelgamerplay_raf

fear of making a silly mistake/joke that could get me deposed

That seems unfounded to me when the only person in the last few years that I remember who has been removed for messing about was Madeira, who wasn’t even using their staff role, so was removed in part because they didn’t need their permissions anymore.

@Rafaelgamerplay_raf

only ONCE that they did such act, and the act in question didn’t even affect the player’s gameplay, they were joking with each other only, just a community interacting with themselves, which was something beautiful on DG

People breaking trust by using their permissions intended for their moderation role is not beautiful and will never been allowed. We used to have way more open interpretation as to how you could use those permissions in the first few years of DG and it ended up killing the community because people started taking it too far. Staff permissions are intended for the very purpose that they were given and nothing else. If you want to mess about with those powers rather than take the role seriously, you should find a server that has that, this is not it.

@Rafaelgamerplay_raf

the fear you put on this server, making it feel like a ditactorship

I only ever act by what the rules have said, it’s not like I am banning and kicking people for random reasons. And most bans simply require an appeal and for the user to come to an understanding of what they did that breaks the rules, before they get back on the server. People only get permabanned if they are clearly flaunting the rules or break a rule that represents either a burden to staff or to the server itself.

@Rafaelgamerplay_raf

stuff that really is so small

Small or big is irrelevant. Problems grow over time if you don’t deal with them when they are small. This is evident in PvP where none of the staff that were active there were enforcing the rules properly, meaning that people were surprised to be held accountable for what was always against the rules. If you weren’t aware, I understood this was the case and personally warned that user 2 or 3 times within 5 minutes before I had to ban them because they were not listening and I had to get back to work.

If a rule says not to do something, there is no big or small infraction, only an infraction. If people think the rule could be changed without having any negative effects, they can easily put forward a reason and discussion about it without breaking it in the meantime. Not doing that and simply breaking it is not a good sign, like I said this is flaunting the rules and makes it clear that you care more about doing what you want than following the rules.

@Rafaelgamerplay_raf

Also, if there isn’t any volunteer to make the necessary rework on the set of rules of the server, then I’d like to volunteer myself to do this.

For the discord server, there is such a need for someone to completely rewrite them since the ones that are there are barely enforced properly as it is and they are not clear either.

For in-game, there is little need to make such drastic changes, only some cleanup and potential rewording to make any ambiguities clearer. Anything else requires more actual discussion to happen, both in the open with other members and also among staff.

[Rafaelgamerplay_raf]

@popstarfreas

If you mean an update from me specifically, the last things I posted were:
Survival TrueSSC v1.6.0 and DTP Maintenance that was last month, nothing other than maintenance has happened in the last month, not sure how that counts as abandonment, I can’t post every week that per usual I fixed a few bugs but nothing else. The two people that have the skills required to do major updates are both busy and so there’s nothing to say.

You’re clearly taking my statements too literally, I said that we haven’t received any clarifications about the server’s state, how it’s going and what is missing to update (developers, moderators, etc).

@popstarfreas

That seems unfounded to me when the only person in the last few years that I remember who has been removed for messing about was Madeira, who wasn’t even using their staff role, so was removed in part because they didn’t need their permissions anymore.

@popstarfreas

People breaking trust by using their permissions intended for their moderation role is not beautiful and will never been allowed. We used to have way more open interpretation as to how you could use those permissions in the first few years of DG and it ended up killing the community because people started taking it too far. Staff permissions are intended for the very purpose that they were given and nothing else. If you want to mess about with those powers rather than take the role seriously, you should find a server that has that, this is not it.

Tru3thful once was deposed and they really were competent, and seems like you can’t understand they were just having a time with the community without even harming them, what’s the point of deposing/banning if nobody was being harmed? Why such strict and harsh enforcement without even a judgment? It used to be like that and it was something fun and harmless to the community, I don’t know which point DG died for having those actions that actually happened rarely.

@popstarfreas

I only ever act by what the rules have said, it’s not like I am banning and kicking people for random reasons. And most bans simply require an appeal and for the user to come to an understanding of what they did that breaks the rules, before they get back on the server. People only get permabanned if they are clearly flaunting the rules or break a rule that represents either a burden to staff or to the server itself.

Yeah sure, it takes like weeks until either you or a another mod takes the appeal and it definitely encourage them keep playing on the server, yep, such enforcement definitely is healthy for the community.

@popstarfreas

Small or big is irrelevant. Problems grow over time if you don’t deal with them when they are small.

Small problems can be dealt very easily, and those definitely will not turn into a giant snowball, I really don’t know what you think when a little border of the line is broken, something insignificant that you can either give a warning or just let it slide to avoid creating sort of a bad image about you.

@popstarfreas

This is evident in PvP where none of the staff that were active there were enforcing the rules properly, meaning that people were surprised to be held accountable for what was always against the rules. If you weren’t aware, I understood this was the case and personally warned that user 2 or 3 times within 5 minutes before I had to ban them because they were not listening and I had to get back to work.

You understanded this single case in particular? What about the others?

@popstarfreas

If a rule says not to do something, there is no big or small infraction, only an infraction. If people think the rule could be changed without having any negative effects, they can easily put forward a reason and discussion about it without breaking it in the meantime. Not doing that and simply breaking it is not a good sign, like I said this is flaunting the rules and makes it clear that you care more about doing what you want than following the rules.

There should be a calculation, exceptions, a propper judgement of the situation instead of taking a single message as a ban worth infraction, this path of ignorance is something really unhealthy, since this server’s purpose is to make people forget some of their problems, make them have fun, and not make them worry about those many rules and its specificities and suffer with anxiety, we’re human after all, and a massive punishment over a infraction that most of the community sees as small, then really means this needs to be looked again and actually judge it. I also want to mention that you doesn’t seem to care if people is just being ironic and joking with themselves, this is simply showing how you prefer the easy and strict path of the rule sets instead of making fair judgements if people are being harmed or not.
In short, those strict rules and enforcements are discouraging the community, and you doesn’t seem to care about this aspect. Please, try making some changes and be a little more lenient in some cases instead of being so strict, that’s what we’re asking.

[Madeira]

@popstarfreas

For the discord server, there is such a need for someone to completely rewrite them since the ones that are there are barely enforced properly as it is and they are not clear either.

Don’t mind me, just dropping by to spark a potential discussion :^)

Rule Elaboration

To elaborate on the vision, rules would still be displayed simply as followed;

1. Be respectful, civil, and welcoming.
2. All NSFW is prohibited

and so on, but prefaced somewhere with a link for a more in-depth elaboration on what each rule entails, and the potential punishment violations may yield. This could be a doc, or another forums post

[popstarfreas]

@Rafaelgamerplay_raf

Tru3thful once was deposed and he really were competent

No. Their permissions were removed until we could talk. Twice. It was only the second time of doing it that I had to consider whether they were actually taking it seriously.

@Rafaelgamerplay_raf

nobody was being harmed?

As if I don’t exist? If I put my trust in them that they will do what we agreed on and they break that, it sounds ridiculous to suggest that nothing is wrong when people do that.

@Rafaelgamerplay_raf

Why such strict and harsh enforcement without even a judgment? It used to be like that and it was something fun and harmless to the community, I don’t know which point DG died for having those actions that actually happened rarely.

Not sure what your first question means. My best guess is that you mean we enforce rules without making a judgement about the context, which is not true, context is used where the rule requires it. I don’t even know what you mean about DG dying for having those actions, the rules are largely the same and have been enforced in the same way for the majority of its life.

@Rafaelgamerplay_raf

Yeah sure, it takes like weeks until either you or a another mod takes the appeal and it definitely encourage them keep playing on the server, yep, such enforcement definitely is healthy for the community.

That’s a separate issue. Staff should not give up enforcing rules just because they may or may not be able to handle an appeal. Appeals are often passed on to someone else if the original staff member doesn’t have time to deal with it. Sometimes it can take a bit before it is processed, but that’s the nature of making sure it’s done right. Users who were banned unfairly are almost always quickly unbanned, usually before they even appeal, anything else requires us to make sure that the user understands that they need to stop breaking a rule, else they will be banned forever because we’ve given them all the warnings that they can be afforded. Enforcing any rules anywhere will always ends up discouraging certain users, that is after all the point. Here, those willing to learn and move forward survive this process, that is intended. The rest, who didn’t agree with rules and so would rather break them anyway, will just leave as has been the goal from the beginning, the rules are a selection of behaviour that is deemed unwanted by the person that created them.

@Rafaelgamerplay_raf

Small problems can be dealt very easily, and those definitely will not turn into a giant snowball, I really don’t know what you think when a little border of the line is broken, something insignificant that you can either give a warning or just let it slide to avoid creating sort of a bad image about you.

The fact that you can state definitively that small issues do not grow larger is worrying to me, because it happens a lot. You can believe what you want, but I know it is a fact that problems unresolved will fester and grow, pushing boundaries is something that people do. Why do you think the phrase “Give someone an inch and they’ll take a mile” exists?

And my image is irrelevant. I built a server and I maintain it. That’s it, I have nothing to prove to anyone and I owe nothing. People will always be critical of whatever you do. If people want to think badly of me because the service I gave them for free out of my time and money doesn’t meet their expectations, then so be it.

@Rafaelgamerplay_raf

You understanded this single case in particular? What about the others?

What others? You should give examples.

@Rafaelgamerplay_raf

There should be a calculation, exceptions, a propper judgement of the situation instead of taking a single message as a ban worth infraction

The rules allow for situational application where necessary. Without giving an example of such a situation that you think is not, I can’t exactly reply to this statement.

@Rafaelgamerplay_raf

a massive punishment over a infraction that most of the community sees as small

a massive punishment like what? A ban? Bans are just a requirement for a user to sit down and talk to a staff member so everyone is on the same page. As I said somewhere in this reply, warnings are usually given where necessary, which I don’t think are massive punishments. If warnings are ineffective or otherwise it’s necessary to be absolutely sure that someone understands that they are breaking the rules and must stop, then they will be banned. In fact I have noticed your response is very general, you should give real examples of what you mean otherwise it is pure speculation on my part as to what you are talking about.

@Rafaelgamerplay_raf

I also want to mention that you doesn’t seem to care if people is just being ironic and joking with themselves, this is simply showing how you prefer the easy and strict path of the rule sets instead of making fair judgements if people are being harmed or not.

People can make jokes, that’s not against the rules.

I’m not sure why you think the road I’m on is easy. There’s no easy path with any of this. If this is the easy path, and you are still complaining, then what is the hard path? More complaining? The path I took with the rules is the one I wanted to see enacted, nothing about being easy or hard.

I chose a set of rules that I wanted to build a server around, and I willingly change and modify them based on feedback so long as it fits within that vision, I’ve always maintained that people who don’t believe the rules taken as a whole match the kind of server that they want are better off finding somewhere that more closely matches their preferences. If small changes are needed, then that is fine, but rewriting the core of the rules is not. It’s ironic you talk about fairness when you are suggesting treating people differently who break the same rule.

@Rafaelgamerplay_raf

try making some changes and be a little more lenient in some cases instead of being so strict, that’s what we’re asking.

In most cases people get warnings, sometimes even many, before they are then banned. And even then, they are only banned so they are forced to sit down and talk to staff properly about what they are doing.

Unless if by strict you mean it limits behaviour more than you think is needed. In which case it is highly dependent on the rule and requires a proper discussion about that rule. Like I said before, without any actual examples there’s nothing for me to address.

[Rafaelgamerplay_raf]

@popstarfreas

Not sure what your first question means. My best guess is that you mean we enforce rules without making a judgement about the context, which is not true, context is used where the rule requires it. I don’t even know what you mean about DG dying for having those actions, the rules are largely the same and have been enforced in the same way for the majority of its life.

Sometimes there isn’t even judgement, it’s just “it’s on the rules”, most times what matters is the rules and not the context. Also, I’m pretty sure back on 2018 rules wasn’t even that enforced, even on 2020 and 2021. The issues started when Glasia started doing the job you couldn’t do, since that, people really got discouraged on continuing playing on the server with fear of getting banned.

@popstarfreas

What others? You should give examples.

@popstarfreas

The rules allow for situational application where necessary. Without giving an example of such a situation that you think is not, I can’t exactly reply to this statement.

Answering both, the P chaining incident and the recent chainings on the server are a perfect example of how limiting the rules are over such small topics.

@popstarfreas

Enforcing any rules anywhere will always ends up discouraging certain users, that is after all the point. Here, those willing to learn and move forward survive this process, that is intended. The rest, who didn’t agree with rules and so would rather break them anyway, will just leave as has been the goal from the beginning, the rules are a selection of behaviour that is deemed unwanted by the person that created them.

Wow, just wow, you simply are just using rules a way to filter out the community, to leave out the people you want to be there, and not the people that the community wants, I guess very few will remain active then. If you can’t understand that, then I really don’t know what’s the point of making this community keep going besides live plastered on a wall. Seriously you should look again at the concept of rules, after all, great part, not certain users, of the users has gotten discouraged by them.

@popstarfreas

Why do you think the phrase “Give someone an inch and they’ll take a mile” exists?

Because of people that will literally take a grain of sand and complain about it, this extremely enforced rules is an example of this.

@popstarfreas

a massive punishment like what? A ban? Bans are just a requirement for a user to sit down and talk to a staff member so everyone is on the same page. As I said somewhere in this reply, warnings are usually given where necessary, which I don’t think are massive punishments. If warnings are ineffective or otherwise it’s necessary to be absolutely sure that someone understands that they are breaking the rules and must stop, then they will be banned. In fact I have noticed your response is very general, you should give real examples of what you mean otherwise it is pure speculation on my part as to what you are talking about.

The problem in question are mostly chatting because of jokes that crosses the line of the rules.

@popstarfreas

I’m not sure why you think the road I’m on is easy. There’s no easy path with any of this. If this is the easy path, and you are still complaining, then what is the hard path? More complaining? The path I took with the rules is the one I wanted to see enacted, nothing about being easy or hard.

Of course, a little rule break when chatting? Let’s give it an end and ban them.

@popstarfreas

It’s ironic you talk about fairness when you are suggesting treating people differently who break the same rule.

I really don’t know where and when I said that, all that I’ve been saying is: threat the community a little less harsh in terms of chatting rules such as the antispam rule.

@popstarfreas

Unless if by strict you mean it limits behaviour more than you think is needed. In which case it is highly dependent on the rule and requires a proper discussion about that rule. Like I said before, without any actual examples there’s nothing for me to address.

Exactly, sometimes the chatting rules limits behaviours more than it should, perfect example of that is the chaining rule on Discord.

Since you doesn’t seem to get what I’m trying to say, I’ll clarify to avoid making this discussion even larger since it’s getting unecessary.
What have been bothering me in all those years were people getting punished due to the antispam you propposed, it can be easily exploited to get people banned over time discouraging them. But since that’s just what you want, I’ll probably not elaborate any further after this. I’ve probably said most points I wanted to cover, I still wanted to get deeper but looks like it is not worth the effort and research, since apparently there isn’t gonna be a change, after all, very few remains to fight for.

By the way, thanks for making some stuff clear, now I know the true nature of all this.

[popstarfreas]

@Rafaelgamerplay_raf

Answering both, the P chaining incident and the recent chainings on the server are a perfect example of how limiting the rules are over such small topics

@Rafaelgamerplay_raf

perfect example of that is the chaining rule on Discord.

Like I’ve stated, I did not make those rules. If you read them, that scenario is covered by rule 4 which to me is unclear because it specifically mentions one word messages and meaningless messages. Spamming the letter p definitely is both of those. But then saying hi is against the one word part for some reason.

That’s why it really needs to be rewritten.

@Rafaelgamerplay_raf

Because of people that will literally take a grain of sand and complain about it, this extremely enforced rules is an example of this.

I’m not for what that means exactly. The thing I was talking about is exceptions and boundary pushing.

@Rafaelgamerplay_raf

Wow, just wow, you simply are just using rules a way to filter out the community, to leave out the people you want to be there, and not the people that the community wants, I guess very few will remain active then

The point is that people who disagree with a large portion of the rules should not have been part of the community in the first place. Everyone else who agrees or simply has smaller changes they would want are fine because we do make changes.

@Rafaelgamerplay_raf

The problem in question are mostly chatting because of jokes that crosses the line of the rules.

Ok but real examples are needed so we can discuss the specifics. Like why a joke needs to break the rules in the first place.

@Rafaelgamerplay_raf

Of course, a little rule break when chatting? Let’s give it an end and ban them.

And an example? You can say little all you want but since it is purely subjective I maintain that there are only rule breaks, no big or small. The description of the rules explains what should be done usually and most chat rules require a warning.

@Rafaelgamerplay_raf

hreat the community a little less harsh in terms of chatting rules such as the antispam rule.

That’s not specific even. You could be referring to either the automated system in game, spamming or subversion of the system.

@Rafaelgamerplay_raf

What have been bothering me in all those years were people getting punished due to the antispam you propposed, it can be easily exploited to get people banned

Look, you clearly have specific examples in mind but you’ve not mentioned then yet. I’m not sure how you expect me to properly respond to that if you won’t even tell me what you are thinking of.

[0re2.0]

Rofle, you have to take most of the frustrations we have for granted. If you keep on denying these issues, however sensible your counterarguments are, the seemingly small fragment of the community that remains cannot deal with these issues by itself. It is never healthy for a community to only retain itself.

This is a community far too small for a strict set of rules. You are lawyering something irrelevant for such a small group of people. Joke impersonation is INSIGNIFICANT for the community. There is too little people for us to get “offended” or “confused”. Rules must be dynamic according to the people they encompass, and we aren’t allergic to the general unhealthy trends of the current rules.

Yes, these rules aren’t strict as a dictatorship, and is quite effective at weeding out the countless script kiddies and racist weirdos that plague the Terraria server. However, these rules are better for a larger and better formed (i.e community management) community and only diminish our more intimate communication.

You might not feel the need to put as much upkeep and attention on the server as we demand you to, but there are still a number of us that miss the excitement of having fun with friends we made on the server and the fun updates and dynamics of the server.

There is also a MASSIVE number that have slowly left the community because of a severe lack of updates and community management. Replies here not only contain disdain for the needless strictness of rules and thereby the frustration of being shut down from creating a friendly and closely knit community, but the remorse of friends and the community that once was.

We care, and you owe your server a healthier community environment since your behind-the-curtain influence and single authority over rules has severely diminished the passionate work that is your server. Passion that is yours, Tex’s, and the community’s.

You must not hold the single authority over rules and moderation if you are so extremely detached from the community and feel the compulsion to pick apart our genuine frustrations.

And no, moderators are not a factor in this. Moderators only make a binary decision of banning/warning a member regardless of context. They are as afraid of violating rules as other members are, and they are only there to make the game more playable, not make the community a healthier place.

Regardless, you appoint so little mods and are frustrated that there are no volunteers from a tiny community of people. There isn’t going to be more mods in the near future unless you appoint pwrwq. Being a moderator is daunting for a member. Not because of the responsibility, but because there are more eyes on you, watching if you violate the current unhealthy trend of rules.

Moderators and player reporters are also disliked by the mostly gone veterans of the server. These rules have caused frustration in regulars that have lost friends to the moderation that they berate player reporters and moderators for being expected to continue their work (ex. Glasia). YOU can fix this! Glasia never deserved any of the harsh behavior, and your rules were the only guiding light for him back then.

At least, reach out, Rofle. We have told you at last, you are not capable of maintaining the server. No updates, a severe lack and ignorance for community management, and reluctance to try and understand our frustrations.
Maybe, the server can heal if you start being more open-ended towards the community, and give friendly faces such as Tru3thful and others some more freedom and power in terms of community management. Please, rework the rules. If you can’t, ask those of us that can. In the end, more regulars will stick, and maybe you’ll find another developer or two to handle this burden.

Please don’t pick apart this post in quotes. Read, and try to empathize. It’s the least you can do.

Thanks for the great server

[popstarfreas]

Ok, you don’t want me to quote you for some reason, so I’ll have to address it as a whole only.

People always leave communities over time for one reason or another, I’ve not seen any particular reason to think that this scenario is any different to what I have seen previously in the history of DG, the biggest issue here is momentum, only because somehow I have been unable to remove the dependence on me to drive things forward. People will disagree, fundamentally it is impossible to remove that, and the server should ideally weed out people who were not intended to be here as quickly as possible, so that those that remain can better focus on the issues that are important.

If you are talking about a few rules needing to be removed, reworked or replaced, due to being too hard to enforce, too strict or otherwise not having the intended effect, then that is different, but the way you are wording it is that you fundamentally disagree with how the rules are as a whole, including the enforcement of them. Those are different levels of change, and only one of those is my goal.

On appointing few mods. The people who are applying do not fundamentally stand out, even other staff are finding it hard to champion any particular person. The choice is either to take the hit on quality and allow people who were previously under the required level or it is keeping firm and instead trying best to inspire and drive those that are capable towards being ready. Taking on a new staff member is a massive task, because you are trusting them with the ability to decide who gets to play and what they get to do, and you hope that they do so only in the way intended. A rogue staff member can very well cause problems for the server if they decide to ban everyone they see whilst other staff are not around.

You single out one person for some reason to be Moderator, but regardless, that does not mean they are suited to be one. Unfortunately, we have not yet worked out a proper process for other staff to be involved in this (clearly since I am still the only person who has been replying to apps, despite inviting four other staff since modappreviewers was created), so those that I gave the ability to take over responsibility here have not been able to do to so properly, whether that is because no one who has applied has shown that they have what it takes or because it’s unclear as to what action needs to be taken when no one is actually sure. I place no blame on anyone in particular, this way of working is new and came about late into my time being taken.

No updates? Well, then help me understand what you expect. Give examples of what you would have liked to have seen over the last month that did not happen. I’ve already said that when notable changes occur, I voice them, and that other things are left unsaid either because there is no news on those things or because the changes are so little that it is not worth talking about.

And if you believe I have a reluctance to understand people’s frustrations, then why do you think this thread exists? This was made so people can voice those. You cannot expect me to agree and say yes to everything, but I can at least take the time to respond and properly bring out what people actually think. Even now, only a few people have responded and it seems very much so like the only people who are going to voice their opinion are the minority of people, effectively the loudest people rather than those most representative, but this is a task that is impossible afaik to solve because this is how all communities work.

Lack and ignorance for community management. You need to elaborate on this. From what I can glean from the thread so far, the issue is not necessarily ignorance nor lack of community management, but a disagreement about what the server is and is not and the lack of momentum to drive forward progress on changes that are agreed on, because fundamentally a time constraint requires prioritisation and that often means keeping the server running and working rather than changing wording of some rules. Unfortunately, a lot of people seem to prefer to complain on discord or in-game, where their messages are inevitably either not seen by the people who can do something about it or are forgotten due to all the other things that get talked about.

Why are you name dropping Tru3thful? As far as I am aware, they have not requested any such freedom nor power, neither the desire to take on any. I have and do ask all staff whether they want to take on something, whatever that something may be at that particular time.

On the rules again, reading between the lines here and ignoring discord rules because I’ve stated twice that I did not write those and have asked multiple times for someone to do it because I don’t focus my attention there, it seems like people have only mentioned two rules, but in spite of that they do not mention the specific rules and instead generalise their position, which only makes it more confusing for me. If you have specific rules in mind, then you say that instead of saying that the “rules” are wrong.

Because, fundamentally I can not conceed on removing the core of DG, because that is essentially me and my ideals, and that is what decides in what direction the rules are written towards. If I left, DG would quickly fall apart and die, because I don’t think anyone here is of the realisation of just how much you need to take on. I have in the past stayed up until 3am and then slept for 3 hours to then get back on, just to solve one issue on the server. Who is really willing to conceed their time, even when they do not feel up to it? I have tried, for my sake, giving out permissions and powers to others to take over the parts that I do not have the time for, but so far no one has been able to take a significant portion, most likely because they require programming and technical expertise. Just posting words in a topic is not enough. We need either need someone or a group of people that ultimately amount to the same dedication to being able to continue, despite the constant workload and inevitable negative nature of being in a position like this, and that they maintain focus on people who are genuinely are up to doing the thankless work, and are capable of continuing in spite of everything. It’s all easy to talk and say people should do something, but to put in the work is on a different level of dedication and it takes its toll on everyone, and I am genuinely thankful to those that lasted as long as they did, and to those that keep going despite it seeming like a never-ending stream of work.

[GlasiaVD23 (Glasia)]

Can I ask on the Terraria Community forum if that is allowed to seek out for server devs that can help you and Tejdxa?

About the rules: I made two suggestions in Suggestion of reworking the server rules and Suggestion of reworking the discord rules so they could be reviewed by as many as possible.

[popstarfreas]

Not sure how that would play out.

There is the issue that developers are more powerful than even moderators. It would be ideal that we know someone is trustworthy and has the servers best interests in mind before giving them the ability to change how the server works. We do code review, but for the amount of work needed, the reviews would likely become a bottleneck, so ideally it would be someone that could quickly get to the point where they are trusted to make and deploy certain changes without me needing to be involved.

[popstarfreas]

Those are good ideas. For the server rules in particular, it may be worth grouping them. Rules that are outdated and need to be removed is one. Rules that you are clarifying are another. Rules that you are changing the meaning of should probably each be a different topic.

Only because some changes require little feedback and others require more. Sorry I didn’t fully read your topic yet, but I noticed that those types are mixed and I know some of those are 100% needing to be made.

[Solysis]

I think a good rule of thumb that seperates the majority of fair bans and the ones that are deemed unfair is the intent behind the person doing the offense, and what the others see. for example, (the examples below are on discord)

---

if i name myself “Keanu Reeves”, then its obvious that im not keanu reeves, and that im just naming my discord account “Keanu Reeves” as a joke.

on the other side of the “ruby moth statue”, if i name myself “Glasia”, change my pfp to Glasia’s pfp, and try to say things to make people think badly of him, then im actually breaking that rule and should be banned.

---

basically every time someone gets banned unfairly (auto mod, or misjudgement of mods), they never intended to do bad

(i could be wrong about this, but im half confident about this)

(also as far as im aware the impersonation rule seems to be one of if not the most annoying rules that people who dont want to actually cause harm get reported for)

(i might be wrong)

---

[popstarfreas]

The discord doesn’t have a rule specific to impersonation. The closest would be rule 1 or 8.

It’s also impossible to say that someone did or did not intend to do something. Anyone could easily say they didn’t mean to do it and come up with way to describe that whilst actually intending to do it. You would only start punishing people that tell the honest truth more than those acting to lie and deceive. And in the end it doesn’t matter, because if you have been warned multiple times and appealed a ban and you still do it, intention or not, you are incapable of being a good member of the server, and that is really the way you would get permanently banned (or if you do something quite serious, like start trying to crash our servers), not because you accidentally broke a rule.

[Juan (Mr. intelligent. 🧠)]

I’ll be voicing my opinion on this subject. Although I’m not always very active. The way I see it, this server is simple; there are rules set, if you break those rules it’s not the end of the world. You can appeal.

However, if you knowingly break those rules and get banned multiple times. There is no point in appealing, and when it comes to jokes. I’m not a moderator, I most likely won’t be. But as a moderator (Glasia for example) you have to take most jokes serious. That’s just how it works IMO.

And lastly, the community isn’t dying necessarily you have to remember. This server has been running for a long time. People age, their interests change. If the community didn’t have a falling out I’d be concerned. As it’s natural for a community as old as this one. That is all I have.

But I will say, I feel like there has been a disconnect in communication. I understand that both rofle and tedjxa are busy. But just a check in atleast once a month would be nice.

[popstarfreas]

@0re2.0

No updates

@popstarfreas

No updates? Well, then help me understand what you expect. Give examples of what you would have liked to have seen over the last month that did not happen.

@Juan

But just a check in atleast once a month would be nice.

It’s unclear whether it is a popular opinion that people think there are not enough “updates”, but at least it would be helpful for at least one person who thinks this to try to do what I said above and give me examples of what they would expect to see over the past month that was not posted. As it is, I post when there are changes made that I think people need to know about.