PvP Item Suggestions

Suggestions Archive PvP
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[b]Daybreak[/b]
Daybreak hits insanely hard, it has a large projectile, it is very very fast, and it has huge range for a melee weapon. Due to the lowered frame rate, Daybreak can now fully kill someone in less than 3 seconds if all the shots are placed correctly, at least while being used with a meta/melee kit.
In order to balance the weapon, restricting it would be necessary.

[b]Snowman Cannon[/b]
Basically the ranger equivalent to Daybreak, just with a tradeoff of projectile speed for hitbox size. The Snowman Cannon has huge damage, shoots very fast, has a large projectile, and has a surprisingly large explosion radius.
Like the Daybreak, a restriction is necessary.

[b]Electrosphere Launcher[/b]
The stationary obstacle that it creates is a huge pain to deal with. Even without increased iframes, and on a melee kit. So add it onto a ranger kit, and with the lowered iframes, suddenly running through an electrosphere can end up costing you upwards of 200 - 300 hp. Now imagine that, but the user is spamming them everywhere. Suddenly it becomes impossible to chase the user, and you either have to leave them alone to run off and heal, or wait for the spheres to wear off and risk losing their position entirely. A restriction would be in order.

[b]Vortex Armor[/b]
Vortex Armor basically makes every single ranged weapon out there insanely good.
The actual armor stats it gives isn’t the op part. The part of this armor that makes it unfair is the set bonus. The ability to go almost fully invisible and nearly double all ranged damage is what sets it apart. To rub it in, movement is still fully possible while invisible. Killing people in godmode isn’t quite so difficult anymore, at least not with this armor.
I’d be fine with a straight up ban, but restriction of this somehow is probably a better idea.

[b]Luminite Arrow[/b]
Luminite Arrows are fast, hit quite hard compared to the other arrows, and have a double effect which makes them very good for scouting and close quarters arrows. The problem is the unique effect the arrows have means that the arrows deal twice the damage through hitting twice as fast. Combined with the large hitbox of the tsunami, and you’ve got a combo that melts even the tankiest pvp kits.
A restriction is due.

Charged Blaster Cannon
This wouldn’t be so bad if it didn’t hurt so damn much, and if it was visible.
With a base damage of 75, you’d think it wouldn’t deal enough damage, but then you realize that it has completely different damage values when fully charged. And with a reach of 300 tiles, it’s super easy to just charge it and fly up and down and sweep players, as they take damage from an unknown projectile. (the projectile is invisible to other players)
This should have been restricted way sooner.

[b]Vortex Beater[/b]
The Vortex Beater is similar to the sdmg in the negatives of it.
It hits quite hard when used on a ranger kit, it has quite a wide spread, and it shoots very fast. It’s super useful for getting rid of shields and beetles, and just to rub it in, it still does a fairly decent chunk of damage, even when using a tanky kit.
Strike one more down for the restriction list.

Sniper Rifle
The Sniper Rifle isn’t quite strong enough to be restricted, nor is it weak enough to be left alone.
It’s a core part of almost every kit, even pure melee, and pure mage should use sniper rifle, as it’s by far the best poke weapon in the game.
In the right hands, it is insanely strong. Thus, it should probably have its damage reduced, OR its use time increased, that way it’s not such a devastating weapon. Even on a normal melee kit it still chunks.

Nebula Blaze
The only thing worth doing is finding a way to change all Nebula Blaze Ex projectiles (the strong blue ones) to change into the purple ones, or deal no damage. It would definitely help the mage become more useful in pvp, while not completely breaking the meta like nebula once did.

[b]Solar Eruption[/b]
The Solar Eruption really isn’t worth restricting anymore. It was in the old arena, but now that we have a more open arena, it’s no more powerful than the paladin’s hammer, trading off a bit of speed for some more damage.

Frozen Turtle Shell
The easiest way to explain the issue with frozen turtle shell is to say that a ranger really needs no defensive accessories apart from the frozen turtle shell. If we were in a 600 hp environment, the issue would be much smaller, but with big weapons being nerfed/banned like daybreak and sniper, there’s really no way to deal with frozen turtle without dodging each and every shot, and just spam pallying.
It’s about damn time this thing got locked away.

RoD
https://dark-gaming.com/thread/rod-to-be-or-not-to-be.2183

[b]Coin Gun (Gold Coins)[/b]
Previously this wasn’t an issue, but now I realize Gold Coins stack with ranged damage, so it’s still possible to hit upwards of 150 using coin gun gold coin. Combined with the fast projectile speed, and the very fast shooting speed, it’s easy to melt someone in seconds.

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I can already see the problem with the proposed changes. The way I see it, amount of damage dealt will be very low after them, and if it will be 1.2 all over again, either health or damage (possibly both) need to be tweaked in order for combat to not be boring and overstretched. It is supposed to be fast-paced, and players indeed are supposed to die in mere seconds, especially in free-for-all.

Although the fate of the combat is quite depressing. Maybe it was those frames that kept the fragile balance in place… oh well, no going back in going back to 1.2 now. I just hope there will still be at least a faint spirit of 1.3 combat: I wholeheartedly hated the pace battles in 1.2 were going at.

I may think up of something useful later.

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[i]“I can already see the problem with the proposed changes. The way I see it, amount of damage dealt will be very low after them,”[/i]
The changes that have been proposed are to balance PvP, and to add more useable weapons. There’s no denying that without these changes, PvP is extremely unfair and frankly, not fun… Daybreak for one is spammed way too much and deals way too much damage, due to its already high base damage, and insane use-speed.

[i]“It is supposed to be fast-paced, and players indeed are supposed to die in mere seconds, especially in free-for-all.” [/i]
Players should die in seconds? Perhaps so, but it should not be because you spam weapons and hope for them to hit. PvP should not be ‘spam all the weapons until someone dies’. PvP should require aim, good movement (as to dodge), and strategy. All the weapons suggested to become restricted take the skill out of PvP and turn it into s spam fest of instant death. While the pace may be slightly toned down, this is a good thing.

[i]“Although the fate of the combat is quite depressing. Maybe it was those frames that kept the fragile balance in place… oh well, no going back in going back to 1.2 now. I just hope there will still be at least a faint spirit of 1.3 combat: I wholeheartedly hated the pace battles in 1.2 were going at.” [/i]
The invincibility frames made it so that you could have no clear indication of your opponent’s HP, and made aim slightly less important, as hitting consecutive shots meant nothing. You’re also probably the only person that enjoys 1.3 over 1.2 PvP. Both updates have added good and bad aspects to PvP, the entire point of the new changes have been to remove the bad aspects and create a new (while still retaining aspects of the past) style of PvP, that the majority will enjoy.

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But to think of it, even in 1.2 many weapons were based on spam: Chain Gun/S.D.M.G. (they were similar back then), Blizzard Staff, Snowman Cannon (which was overrated, by the way), Scourge of the Corruptor, Tsunami, Terra Blade, Candy Corn Rifle, even Nimbus Rod. It will require a great deal of banning things to change that, as spamming is the core concept of those problematic weapons since they were designed for PvE in the first place, which has a lot of flimsy enemies as opposed to a single/few equal combatant(s). And to tell, banning everything is very bad for combat.

The idea I would like, however, is taking weapons that are good in concept (for example, Clockwork Assault Rifle, Revolver, Vampire Knives), but have crappy stats at the moment, and ramping up their damage. That would solve the problem with having very few balanced weapons and would add some flavor to combat.

I mentioned the pace of combat because it was terrible in 1.2 even with all the spam, and I don’t want that to come back. This, or I am that one loser who got knocked out from the saddle even before the race started, and I do not belong to balanced PvP. Either way, I do have worthy replacements, so it should not be a problem if I go downhill and choose to become a civilian once again.

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Not many non-banned weapons were spam based, and did huge damage. Scourge may have been annoying, but it’s damage was meh, and it was fairly simple to avoid, for Candy Corn Rifle to do any damage, you’d need to get close, and at that point you’d most likely be taken out by a Paladin’s Hammer, Tsunami was pretty good, but didn’t have that much distance, meaning it could be countered by SBS, HR, or even SR. S.D.M.G. I don’t even remember seeing anyone use, I do believe it had lowered damage in 1.2, however. Snowman Cannon was banned, of course. Terra Blade… No good player in 1.2 used this, and it was banned in quite a few places, for obvious reasons. Nimbus Rod? Did you just try to compare Nimbus Rod to the Terra Blade? I don’t even feel the need to explain why the Nimbus Rod isn’t spam based, albeit annoying.

"The idea I would like, however, is taking weapons that are good in concept (for example, Clockwork Assault Rifle, Revolver, Vampire Knives), but have crappy stats at the moment, and ramping up their damage. That would solve the problem with having very few balanced weapons and would add some flavor to combat.”
This is the ideal solution, and will happen at some point or another.

For now, I have the suggested addition of restricting the Terra Blade and Influx Waver. I didn’t have a problem with these weapons until I saw a guy spamming the life out of them. The projectiles do not disperse, and they can deal massive damage when used with a GnP type kit. These weapons are already OP and made worse by the fact that they’re Melee weapons. Melee should be short-ranged, high damage combat. Not spam long-range weapons that can deal 100 damage per hit. The projectiles also completely ignore gravity, and continue to move in a straight line until they hit something, or someone.


How the fuck are you supposed to dodge that? And that’s with Meta, not GnP!

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Might as well get rid of melee as a whole.

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“[i]Might as well get rid of melee as a whole.[/i]”
Nope, just the parts that undermine the entire purpose of melee.

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Why were Terra Blade and Influx Waver even created in the first place for a melee loadout? I think all of melee should be banned because in the wrong hands, it can undermine everything.

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“[b]Why were Terra Blade and Influx Waver even created in the first place for a melee loadout?[/b]”
Most likely because the Dev’s don’t take the time to consider how the weapons stand in a fair combat system, especially one they would have no way of knowing, as DG’s is fairly unique.

Although if the projectiles were made slower, it wouldn’t really be a problem nudges Fofle.

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I say that the Terra Blade should be banned, because of its fairly high damage and beam speed and reload. Influx Waver…meh…not that fast at all and not many people use it.

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Terra Blade is actually balanced in PvP. The real issue is that most people won’t take the effort to dodge it.
As most people spam it in “waves” you can just use saddle to go above them or if you have a high enough defense, just go through them. (Beetle makes good work of it, and it can recover quickly.) Influx Waver has no issue as for it’s projectile rate is slower, along with the fact rarely anybody uses it. (Banning Terra Blade would make everybody use Influx Waver.) The main reason Terra Blade seems so OP now is not because of it’s projectiles, but it’s actual sword. When you hit your enemy with the sword it can do MASSIVE damage due to the reduced Iframes, but after all, that’s why the sword has a blade. I see no issue with Terra Blade, as for not only is it easy to dodge, but it has slow projectiles. I will admit that in blade reach, it does do massive damage, but that’s what you will get with every sword.

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-facedesk-
Let me wrap up the melee issue.
Terrablade is terribly good for a number of reasons.

  1. The projectile is linear, fast, and is unaffected by gravity
  2. It is so easy to spam it and combo/spam kill with it due to its immense speed
  3. The blade basically doubles the damage, thus making it an almost OHKO weapon when in cq

So, is it really worth restricting?
In my opinion, yes. Influx Waver covers everything the terrablade does, but a little less due to it being slower. Banning the TBlade would make melee a little bit worse, but that’s alright, as melee is currently the best option for pvp anyways. We gotta give mages and rangers some cometative love somehow.

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Your 3rd reason is invalid, as for any sword that will actually do decent damage in PvP, has a projectile, so you’ll get that issue either way.

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The third reason is not “invalid”, as it will do the most DPS out of any sword, making it a beast without Iframes.

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As I said, you will get that issue with any sword…

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Yea… No…
Terra Blade has the highest damage and use-speed of any weapon allowed in PvP.
Furthermore, it’s not just that the sword blade has high damage, but it also has the stupidly over-powered beam.

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Should the “Celebration” be banned also? It’s fairly overpowered and spammy which is so annoying. It deals a good amount of damage but it turns into a monster when paired up with a good ranger loadout, I think it’s fair that it should be banned.

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To be honest, as annoying as it may be, I don’t think it should be banned. For one, the projectiles are slow and easily dodged, it also just doesn’t do that much damage. The only time it’s really good, is when paired with Vortex armor, which once again, removes mobility. Vortex armor also makes basically every high-tier Ranger weapon OP.

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I am either tripping bowls and should be kicked out of this thread already for talking doomsday-style nonsense, or we are having some serious issues down the line, of which I was afraid of even before the Grand One-point-Three got released. As we go further cutting off stronger-than-the-rest weapons, new ones suddenly appear out of the things that would be considered okay or even worthless before, and they will keep appearing until the majority of changes ever made by one-point-three get rolled back entirely, excluding some shoddy weapons like Nebula Arcanum and a suit of armor, and things that are extremely similar to the previous ones…

Before I get completely crucified for this post, I will explain why do I have this odd opinion on things going on right now. Let’s start off with a hypothetical situation where none of the weapons are banned yet, as I was in this situation when my home server was just kicking in the grand update, and I indeed will provide some of the story, which no one should care about, as it is definitely irrevelant now.
First thing that comes to mind is, of course, the Last Prism, and there is no comment needed on that one. Definitely banned, ruins every PvP experience regardless of the conditions.
The second thing resides in the sword category and has attained a very bad reputation for its projectiles, and that is the Star Wrath. With its stars having the same kick as goddamn Terrarian does no wonder it is so shunned, and although it was somehow possible to counter it, nobody really wanted to and I can perfectly see why. Into the ban list without regrets it goes.
The third thing is also a sword and is very annoying even outside of PvP. You guessed right, it is Meowmere. From a gameplay perspective it is a bastard son of Daybreak and Terrarian: it attained the attack mode of the first and damage coupled with a bit of clumsiness of the second, except it also has a potential of trashing the area with projectiles (although they are not that horrifying as one might suspect, but still pretty annoying). Back home I at one point negotiated for it to be allowed, but its repeating sound effects and tendency to derail combat into Meow-to-Meow spam duels finished it all off, and it went straight into the dusty old box.
Fourth one had the exact same problem as the third one, and that was the Coin Gun with Platinum Coins. It started off as an experiment: if the new weapons got all buffed up, what if the old manslaughtering machine finally got its crap together and fits in now? Turns out we (or rather I, as nobody else actively wanted to see this weapon again until I brought that up) were not far from truth, but this weapon had a major problem: it kept derailing the combat into coinstorm. It was not impossible to counter just as with the previous two weapons, but it was very unpleasant to deal with, so it was over.

So what was all that crap about? The answer is: with only four banned weapons, the combat is still fun, aside from few odd cases where people would suit up in Vortex and start abusing S.D.M.G., but that is surprisingly uncommon, at least in my home… besides, most of those wannabe rangers are easily being dealt with by a good swing of Terrarian or a fat blue Nebula Blaze blob. And that is the thing: if someone pulls out a very strong weapon, others can do the same, but they do not actually need to. You could counter a rushing madman with Terrarian by using the Blaze, or you can gun him down with the Sniper Rifle, or, alternatively, you can use Daybreak, or even try your luck with the Rainbow Crystal Staff. Oh, that is such a pretty concept… except I am talking crap given the circumstances of all those powerful weapons being banned here in the first place, so I will step back and focus on the actual topic from now on. Russian servers followed an entirely different, more Wild West-ey path of the warcrafting thing, so I should not bring that up here, especially given the radical change related to invincibility frames.

So what was all that crap REALLY about? Let’s say four bans were not enough and the combat is still unbalanced. Suddenly another five weapons fall under the hammer: S.D.M.G., Terrarian, Nebula Blaze, Proximity Mine Launcher and Lunar Flares (strange, never saw them as overpowered). It is a huge dent already: there were like nine useful weapons (tenth used to be Elf Melter, but it can be countered by Obsidian Skin Potion) and now there are only four of them: Sniper Rifle, Daybreak, Rainbow Crystal Staff (which is banned here) and Charged Blaster Cannon (which is in danger of being banned), so it basically leaves us with a duo of Sniper Rifle and Daybreak, which everyone loves and hates (and do not get me started about “alternatives”, which were massively weaker and did not compare). This is where the vicious cycle of banning ended for most of the English servers.

That is, until a very, very big change was made by our coding wizard Rofle. Personally I am now neutral and stopped itching about it like a crybaby: both old and new frames have their props and their issues, but let’s focus on the new ones and see what they actually mean for the future of the combat.

Shortly after iframes were changed around, a problem arose: rapid-firing weapons suddenly became too strong. Even Vortex Beater, which was one of the worst weapons ever, is now causing trouble. It is by no means a new issue: what actually happened was that a very painful subject from all the way back 1.2 was brought up again. Spam. It was caused by a lot of weapons, it caused a lot of hate and it allowed cheap tactics like sapping beetles before doing any serious damage. I do not remember how was that issue resolved, or if it was resolved at all. My brain goes crap on me regarding this one, and I have not visited other servers much before 1.3, but there is one thing I am sure about: it is all coming back.

Now, remember the vicious cycle of cutting off things until everything settles down? Those recent changes have pushed the boundaries of this cycle beyond Sniper Rifle and Daybreak, and how far - we do not yet know. The major twist here is whether or not we can manipulate weapon stats server-side: if we cannot, we are about to step into some serious trouble, because if we keep banning strong weapons one after the another (not that it is unnecessary, I am not the one to judge), we might get to the point where nothing really does any damage at all (defensive abilities were boosted in 1.3 by an alternative defense formula and Worm Scarf, remember?), or when there are only two to five usable, primary weapons (there are a lot of secondaries, no concern about them in the slightest). Many things in Terraria like firing rapidly and/or trashing the place with projectiles, so… it is going to be hell of a challenge, isn’t it? Even when they do no damage, they still sap the armor, and that massively powers up other weapons.

Now, I am really sorry for the people who lost their remnants of respect for me, if they had any, for I tried to push my childish crap as something sensible once again and should really have had a sensei who could guide me and stop me from doing this, but I am truly lost and deeply concerned about the fate of combat. However, I do believe in you guys, and if it turns out weapon stats can indeed be manipulated server-side, this might turn out well for everybody, but even if not, I still think there will be a workaround. Just do your best: this is a more difficult matter than it seems, but it is not unresolvable. We could have a new era started here.

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We just want PvP to be fair, and not a spam fest…
I think most will agree that we’re going in the right direction by uprooting and burning to hell all the over-powered weapons.
Getting rid of over-powered weapons doesn’t narrow weapon selection, but rather it broadens in by allowing weaker weapons to be on par, or slightly lower to the new best weapons. 1.3 didn’t add too many super good weapons, so the ones that are super good are limited (excluding the ones that downright ruin PvP).

DG’s PvP system is meant to be a unique, fair, and fun experience, for not just Pros, but also for new players.
It seems that the “vicious cycle” had already died. There are now plenty of useable weapons, that are both fun, and unique.
The system has most definitely (rightfully so) been brought to the point where a player can no longer get away with a one weapon build, but rather should take the effort to learn how to use the myriad of available weapons, to increase their skill, effectiveness and overall fun (if not for them, then their opponents).

Anyways, there are obviously a few kinks to work out, and being able to edit the base damage of weapons would be the preferable outcome so that we could allow practically every weapon that would bring a fun new aspect to PvP.

Not really sure how much of this applies to what you said, as I’m rather tired…

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