My suggestion is pretty simple. It’s to simply have all point awarding be done like demon eyes or slimers, having mobs give a flat amount of points when they die instead of everytime they get damaged.
As you can see, I was max build (max armor, hp, weapon) on round 9. During the next round, I got 800k more points, which is complete insanity.
Having points being given per damage tick makes some weapons better even if they’re more boring, and makes farming almost mandatory in some maps if you don’t want to get destroyed in later waves.
The mechanic is already there, I don’t see any reason to not have every monster work like this.
Sure, Cryptic Castle is easy, but getting over 2 million points solo before wave 10 is just broken, and that doesn’t count the points my teammates got.
EDIT:
Another point in favor would be reducing the incentive to lag the server. More damage ticks = more lag (I can prove this if necessary), so killing monsters swiftly would make you have less server load.
Cryptic Castle is, yes, a notoriously easy map, and it isn’t enabled in the economy. Round 10 is often where people get the most points, so this isn’t uncommon. While Cryptic might be easy, try other maps to show the difficulty even with points-per-hit.
That’s quite an accomplishment, but it’s not impossible by any means; also, you didn’t buy the max weapons, only the armor.
Additionally, Cryptic isn’t economy enabled, so it shouldn’t really be counted as balanced (in my opinion), non-economy maps can be incredibly hard or super easy and not break the game either way.
Obviously it isn’t impossible, since I submitted proof
The point isn’t about Cryptic, this is possible in most maps if you have enough patience. The point was showing how ridiculous it gets. There is no good reason to give points per damage tick as far as I can see, especially because it makes some weapons straight up better/makes upgrading a bad move.
Not really, you would still need to survive, which is harder in most maps if you only have a farming weapon. I do understand your point, but I don’t think it’s really broken/unbalanced.
Also, it is broken, because if you play cryptic castle normally you’ll get less than 1% of the points you can get by farming.
Don’t forget that most times a farming weapon is something like vilethorn, that lets you stay safely behind a wall, or a slime staff, that also lets you do that. Only melee is unsafe.
This isn’t something specific to Cryptic Castle, as far as I’m aware there isn’t some code running giving an XP multiplier to Cryptic Castle.
And what about the points your teammates get? Do they get nothing, a percentage of the original, or the full amount if a flat value were to be implemented?
The mechanic is there because those mobs exist specifically to provide a significant income to all players in the lobby, because they accompany an increase in the rounds’ difficulty. It’s why they have a flat value.
Cryptic Castle was quite literally a map made with farming in mind. It’s not the greatest example due to that and the fact that it was also intended to be an incredibly easy(easiest) and noob-friendly map.
Yes, and the privilege granted to you as the player, is that you have the complete freedom of choice to determine how you want to play. If someone wishes to farm for a large amount of time, so be it. If they want to do the opposite, they can.
A good enough reason is that every maps’ difficulty is not scaled to be the same. Having a flat value be used for the points’ system would very easily be unbalanced from an easy-difficult rated map, especially the one’s that don’t provide you with an easy opportunity for farming. Most maps with
the economy enabled on them are like that, because their difficulty and balance have been verified.
iirc, it used to be like this but it was replaced, reasons unknown. I can only speculate, and I suspect it’s because people were competing for points instead of cooperating
even then, if so, would how much would 1 enemy get? less then farming method, or more? along with less or more then the average weapon method of killing
Having points earned from primary zombies per times damage has been dealt (not tick, wrong terminology there) is a feature of Zombies Survival in my eyes.
This should be and is considered by many maps, and therefore you might come across are some “farming weapons” that deal low but frequent damage across many maps. If a map has done it wrong, it’s the maps fault. Make other suggestions criticizing how easy it is to earn points in said map.
Someone mentioned this before. Firstly, I’m going to assume you mean damage per hit, not per tick. Otherwise, I have no idea what you mean. Rewarding only on kill reduces the options because it means you will always get the same amount of points no matter what you do. It basically reduces strategy to getting the “best” gear at all times, rather than keeping a balance between low damage and lethality. It seems your whole suggestion is actually about Cryptic Castle. I think you should remove that from your suggestion and base it on maps in general because otherwise pointing out that Cryptic Castle is easy and so the whole gamemode should be changed seems a bit dramatic.
Further, there is no reasoning behind breaking every map’s balance, how it would be migrated considering the immense effort, and how it would improve the mode at all. The reason we have some mobs that reward per kill is because those mobs (flying enemies and bosses) are intended to be individually more powerful and annoying than the primary mobs , and as a result, gives a reason to try to have weapons to kill them more quickly.
Overall, this seems more like a reaction to you playing on a specific map rather than something you planned out and found to be actually better for the mode.
I’m going to start out by clarifying that this isn’t map specific, ever, even if you made a flat map with no chests. That is because sentry exists, and sentry has a minigun sentry, that deals 1 damage rapidly. How much of a difference does this make? Well, I decided to try it out by getting into a random map and killing 4 zombies, two with sentry and two with my starter weapon:
That is less than one third of the points. Farming is doable in every map, whether by means of safe spots (sentry, vilethorn, slime staff) or cooperation (protecting the sentry in a semi safe spot). Heck, you might even tell me bosses will shred sentries, and to that I say “well, just pick up the sentries, deal with the boss and replace them”. By farming, when diabolists/worms/sand guardians arrive, you won’t be needing the points anymore.
Even within sentry, why would minigun give more points than sniper? That makes for an unfun experience with lack of diversity and removes the satisfaction of progression.
It can work just like it works right now, a percentage. If that is problem, just have it literally work like right now and have points be multiplied by damage dealt (and a per creature multiplier, if appropriate). This would even solve another problem in my eyes, which is the absolute lack of reward for killing certain “mini bosses”, like diabolists or sand guardians. There is just no incentive to kill them (well, aside from diabolists where you just have to avoid getting murdered).
There are also tons more ways to make it fun. Have everyone get the same points, then at the end of the round have a set amount of points be distributed based on damage dealt. There, that way everyone gets points and players that actually helped get rewarded. As it stands, a player that spent the whole round dealing 1 damage to the same 10 mobs gets more points than the player that wiped the other 90 mobs, and that is more unfair.
Plus, this whole “more damage = better player” thing is straight up wrong. Some maps have healers, how do they get rewarded? They don’t. Other maps have tank armors, that have you specifically take more damage. Where’s the reward in that?
And that is a good reason, might as well keep that, but as said, points could and should be multiplied by damage dealt, to have a monster overall always reward the same amount of points.
That is a bad excuse for bad game design. Progression is and has been for a while an essential part of game design, whether by getting higher levels, getting higher damage, or even soaking more damage. While getting tons of hits with starlight is fun at first, it gets old really fast. That and the fact that the sheer amount of hits slows down some computers, which is straight up not fun. Plus, using the same weapon the whole game gets you no sense of progression.
Heck, the opposite of your argument is true, implement my suggestion and if people want to handicap themselves by using weak weapons, they have that freedom. But the base game design should cater to a fun balanced experience. Especially since we’re mostly in public lobbies where we can’t control the actions of our party.
This is another pet peeve I have regarding the gamemode, that is also honestly a case of bad game design. Maps should be easier or harder by either giving you more or less points or having things cost more or less. Period. A mixture of both is just confusing and impossible to balance. On some maps things are cheaper but you get less points, on others they’re more expensive but you get more points, that makes things unnecessarily unclear and hard for new players, in the sense that each map has its’ own learning curve.
Being able to generally think “ok, this weapon costs 30k, the next wave only gets me 20k so I might as well buy something else for now” makes for an easier and more fun experience and rewards skill and planning. As it stands you can expect to have 30k by end of round with your little farm, but then a teammate rolls around and kills your farm and everyone gets screwed.
And the worst thing? Your teammate wasn’t doing anything wrong, how can you argue that killing the enemies in a game is trolling? If anything, you were the one trolling, by stalling the game and increasing server load. I honestly can’t believe anyone actually enjoys standing behind a door spamming Vilethorn, or even straight up afking with slime staff.
In terms of solutions, here’s mine (numbers are an example, let’s not discuss if they’re balanced):
Monsters give points equal to their HP (you can also have a per mob multiplier in the case of mobs that have low HP/too high HP), divided equally among all players in screen range (hey, let’s reward teamwork instead of dealing low damage). If points are rewarded when they die or as they take damage is an implementation detail in my opinion. I’d have it be on death to reduce function calls.
When the round ends, print round stats in chat (highest damage) and distribute a bonus 10% points according to that (so the “carries” get rewarded, but in a way that doesn’t set everyone else behind). Give certain classes a bonus (having turtle/solar armor gives you a flat bonus to reward the mob attention you’re drawing. Healing spectre gives you a percentage bonus to make up for the damage you’re losing in order to heal the party)
Another big issue currently that this would solve is getting behind. There is a point in the game where mostly new players just can’t deal enough damage to get points, and keep dying and losing their points because they can’t survive due to how behind they are. All that while someone is shredding the enemies and actually getting to have fun.
Ok well, I skimmed your message and didn’t bother reading the content, because you seem to just be heavily opinionated rather than actually thinking about the impact your suggestion has. Maybe if it picks up popularity I will revisit it, but you seem to either be a new player or have no grasp of the actual game mechanics this mode uses. Insulting the design it has now isn’t going to convince anyone to do anything. You need an actual argument that considers the advantages and disadvantages of the current design compared with your suggestion. So far as I can see, you seem to be heavily biased in that regard which makes me think you just don’t like this mode, and that’s fine, but you’re best bet would be to make your own.
First, if your function is heal, why would you want dmg, its like having a medic that has a machine gun , but can’t heal
Aslo if you are a support, isn’t supoced that you shouod help other players, by making them stronger and not on yourself?
Something like supports on League of legends
Also, as far im aware, there are no healers in terraria?
Unless you reffer to spectre armor (but still /lobby ts exists)
You don’t nesesary need to have different amounts of score, The modifed weapons exists to modify the dificulty curve, and the map layout itself
Basically here im understanding that you want that every map has the same weapons, but different score scale (that would be actually bad design…)
Uhhh
But no one ever said that killing enemies was trolling
Also again, Its up to you farm or get straight to kill, there is no actual argument on that,You can reach high rounds without farming with the correct setup, and skill (and also teammates)
Isn’t this actually the same as Hits per points?
More HP= More hits, even if isn’t a farming weapon
We will not trust new players to redesign a gamemode for everyone. It’s just ridiculous to think that. I play anonymously and talk to guests all the time, I’ve never seen someone come out with what you have said, because guests will naturally come in with different expectations until they play enough to have converged on an understanding of the experience this mode provides. Only then can there be a next step.
Because most people aren’t aware of how points are distributed. How would they be able to complain about something they don’t know exists? Heck, aside from flying enemies, it’s completely unclear how points are given. Why should such an unclear thing even be apart of the game mechanics, on a gamemode that has no tutorial? The game has a simple formula, kill zombies, upgrade gear, that’s a tried and studied formula and it just works, this points system is just needlessly confusing.
It’s hard for players to play enough when the learning curve is needlessly complicated and there are no resources to learn. They’ll just get tired and leave.
I really recommend you implement a tracker for player retention metrics and get an idea of when players leave (hint: when they keep getting one shot because they’re behind).
What, points on kill is going to improve on this issue? Won’t your teammates be able to steal more points from you?
Map designs and balancing is made by map makers, and they know their stuff. If you’re unhappy about the design and balance of a map then try looking at something other than the absolute maximum of overpowered point farming: Cryptic Castle. Maps work, points per hit work. It’s not confusing or hard to balance when players are sharing point earnings IF they want to contribute to the game.
Some maps should have their spesific learning curves for, you know, veterans, but usually the concept of “points per hit” isn’t too complex for new players. Most maps that guests are accomodated to usually have an easy balance where using powerful weapons grants you sufficient points for proper equipment.
Have you ever played a match of zombies where you thought the points per hit system was making the game extremely tedious? Cryptic Castle is a horrible example to give when it comes to criticizing this system, and that seems to be the only example you can provide when it comes to this.
Points per hit gives farm weapons purposes, room for creativity when it comes to farming points and a fair level for all players. You get rewarded for your contribution with points per hit. Other systems might be exploitable, too complex for a new player or limits the current creative strategizing many maps require.
Zombies Survival is not a gamemode made to please guests. Rofle’s not earning money from having them play it. As I mentioned earlier the system isn’t too complex and usually doesn’t bother the guests because they can only go so far regardless if they know the system or not. You have to expect some will to learn and improve if a new player wants to become good at the gamemode.
