Have all mobs give points per death instead of per damage tick

[deleted]

No, I’m on computer, but new players have no idea why they got 100k points in wave 8 in one game and only got 10k in the same wave, same map, same kit in a different game.

[0reg0n]

You’re speaking for the new players, yet Rofle’s already said they aren’t very bothered or confused about the system. This is a problem of yours, a highly exaggerated one.

[popstarfreas]

Well to needlessly go back and forward, I’m opting out of this discussion. Feel free to continue with others. Your current problem just seems to be how you are describing your suggestion. You are not focusing on the right comparisons and as a result you are making a lot of points that are subject to opinion. Your suggestion unlike others, is a very big change and would completely wreck the balance that people made into their own maps, maps whose creators are likely not to be around. If you are new player, it is probably more difficult, but for such a big change to be taken seriously it needs to be thought of from someone managing the gamemode rather than from a player, because of the immense changes required. And don’t forget, hypothetically if the game itself changes too much, that the people working on it don’t like it anymore, then the people who work on it would work on something else instead.

[deleted]

@0reg0n

What, points on kill is going to improve on this issue? Won’t your teammates be able to steal more points from you?

How would they steal points if they’re rewarded to everyone?

@0reg0n

Map designs and balancing is made by map makers, and they know their stuff. If you’re unhappy about the design and balance of a map then try looking at something other than the absolute maximum of overpowered point farming: Cryptic Castle. Maps work, points per hit work. It’s not confusing or hard to balance when players are sharing point earnings IF they want to contribute to the game.

This isn’t specific to Cryptic Castle as said and reiterated.

@0reg0n

Some maps should have their spesific learning curves for, you know, veterans, but usually the concept of “points per hit” isn’t too complex for new players. Most maps that guests are accomodated to usually have an easy balance where using powerful weapons grants you sufficient points for proper equipment.

Have you ever played a match of zombies where you thought the points per hit system was making the game extremely tedious? Cryptic Castle is a horrible example to give when it comes to criticizing this system, and that seems to be the only example you can provide when it comes to this.

Points per hit gives farm weapons purposes, room for creativity when it comes to farming points and a fair level for all players. You get rewarded for your contribution with points per hit. Other systems might be exploitable, too complex for a new player or limits the current creative strategizing many maps require.

Spamming machinegun sentries isn’t creative at all and it’s one of the best strategies. Plus, it’s completely map independent.

@0reg0n

Other systems might be exploitable, too complex for a new player or limits the current creative strategizing many maps require.

This system is the pinacle of exploitation.

@0reg0n

Zombies Survival is not a gamemode made to please guests. Rofle’s not earning money from having them play it. As I mentioned earlier the system isn’t too complex and usually doesn’t bother the guests because they can only go so far regardless if they know the system or not. You have to expect some will to learn and improve if a new player wants to become good at the gamemode.

That shows a great unawareness of the concepts of growth and customer retention. Sure, current guests don’t give money, but they will in the future.

@0reg0n

You have to expect some will to learn and improve if a new player wants to become good at the gamemode.

Most people come play video games to have fun, especially this game and gamemode. This isn’t league of legends.

@0reg0n

You’re speaking for the new players, yet Rofle’s already said they aren’t very bothered or confused about the system. This is a problem of yours, a highly exaggerated one.

@popstarfreas

Well to needlessly go back and forward, I’m opting out of this discussion. Feel free to continue with others. Your current problem just seems to be how you are describing your suggestion. You are not focusing on the right comparisons and as a result you are making a lot of points that are subject to opinion. Your suggestion unlike others, is a very big change and would completely wreck the balance that people made into their own maps, maps whose creators are likely not to be around. If you are new player, it is probably more difficult, but for such a big change to be taken seriously it needs to be thought of from someone managing the gamemode rather than from a player, because of the immense changes required. And don’t forget, hypothetically if the game itself changes too much, that the people working on it don’t like it anymore, then the people who work on it would work on something else instead.

I’m also opting out, all I had to share was shared.

[0reg0n]

@deleted

but they will in the future.

Hello mister server owner, what are your plans on monetizing DG?

@deleted

Spamming machinegun sentries isn’t creative at all and it’s one of the best strategies.

Sentries get extremely expensive after placing a few, and most maps need creative usage of other sentries to enforce the minigun bunch.

@deleted

This system is the pinacle of exploitation.

Example? Crytpic Castle? Lunar Mineshafts? You realize weapons are put by the map makers themselves, is the system to blame in that case?

@deleted

Most people come play video games to have fun, especially this game and gamemode. This isn’t league of legends.

Can’t a game require some sort of skill and research to reach further points? The gamemode is already fun, if it wasn’t where’d all the guests be? Do you think DG has an extreme flow of guests coming in and out?

@deleted

I’m also opting out, all I had to share was shared.

[Tejdxa]

@deleted

On some maps things are cheaper but you get less points, on others they’re more expensive but you get more points, that makes things unnecessarily unclear and hard for new players, in the sense that each map has its’ own learning curve.

This is true. However, nothing can be done about it at the moment. Since maps don’t abide by any standards, it’ll be hard to revisit and balance them properly. Additionally, there’s no mechanism to award roles at the moment. The best way to get points, as you’ve mentioned, is farming. Healers/Dodgers/etc are not in the equation.

[Tejdxa]

@deleted

I really recommend you implement a tracker for player retention metrics and get an idea of when players leave (hint: when they keep getting one shot because they’re behind).

This is not something easy to do. There is no easy way to predict or understand motive, it often involves some expensive solution.

Predicting results in a vague dataset is also a bad idea. Human brains are inherently biased and are subject to biased surveying/picking of data

[Tejdxa]

@deleted

Spamming machinegun sentries isn’t creative at all and it’s one of the best strategies. Plus, it’s completely map independent.

Yeah… that’s the point of abilities… They’re designed to be map independent, though some more than others.

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Overall, there is a point to be said. Damage per hit immensely encourages retaining weak weapons to farm. However, I do not believe that it should be removed entirely. An alternate solution is to fix the bug in the codebase that caps points per hit – regardless of damage – at around 10 or so. It will in effect, boost the motive to progress into later tiers. However there’s several problems:

1. There’s some later tiers that are infamously bad, i.e. Spectre Armor, Shadow Hex Doll(Hill House), etc.
2. To assume that each tier is intented to be farm-y is a very bad assumption, it’s possible some tiers are intended to deal more damage and in effect, slower, and bad for farming.
3. You’ll likely have some excess points, since we didn’t take away any. We simply fixed a broken mechanism and gave more points out

1. and 2. are not easy to fix. Like Rofle has mentioned, some map creators are no longer around and changes to those maps are limited.

As for 3. you could fix it by reducing the points gained by farming, but this will again, break maps that are based around them.

On an unrelated note, I suppose there’s an easier solution to all 3: remove the map. Sure it’s brutal, but imho there’s more bad than good by keeping a poorly designed map or one that hasn’t stood the test of time. In general, they support, or more so, reward the exploit of basic(though crucial nonetheless) and easy to do strategies. Such as abusing flat landscape, afk spots were zombies can’t reach, etc.

[Madofado]

I think the most simplified argument against this is that it gives you one less thing to do - there would be no point of farming weapons anymore. Also, unless each mob gave a ton of points on death, it would be harder to get points on most already difficult maps.

[Tejdxa]

Locking per author’s request