In Expert Mode and Master Mode, most boss loot comes in Treasure Bags, allowing everyone to get loot. However, Fragments don’t do this, and it causes heavy competition for Fragments. In general, it’s not fun for anyone and creates a toxic environment.
So my proposal: Make Fragments act like Treasure Bags. Everyone who had participated in fighting the pillar should be able to have its Fragments. To be clear, everyone will have the same amount of Fragments because the loot table won’t be regenerated for every player.
It could also be possible that the amount of fragments dropped for each player, instead of being the same as everyone else based on what the game decides, would be directly proportional to the amount of damage they did to the pillar or its related enemies. For example, people who killed only one monster from that will only have 8-15 Fragments, and people who killed a lot of monsters or had hit the pillar to do significant damage will get 50-80 Fragments. This could encourage people to actually help kill the pillar, instead of just killing one single enemy and then relying on the skilled players to do all the work for them.
Would there be an upper limit for enemies? Dealing with damage to enemies doesn’t contribute to the shield because you have to kill them. In theory, you would be able to farm the enemies to generate more fragments
Also, making it directly proportional while keeping instancing only prevents loot stealing. People competing will still be a problem
Thinking about it, there should be an upper limit for the enemies. Killing enough enemies is a lot harder than killing the pillar itself. Maybe enemy kills shouldn’t count anymore once the shield is gone. After all, the only thing that’s important is that you got the health of the shield/pillar down.
I can see that, I imagine potential cases where people get mad at others for stealing their kills. Competitiveness in this situation would not be so good, because cooperation is much more important here. Either way, it’d still be better than people competing to get to the fragment drops before anyone else.
Again, this is only a possibility. I can see why making it dependent on whether the player contributed at all would be better for some people.
I also forgot the fact that people do this with all bosses already…
(also thanks for pointing out the grammatical error lol. i fixed that already)
Afaik, pillars’ hp don’t scale by difficulty. I thought of two things(Brainstorming):
1. Make their hp scale by who’s fighting currently instead of the whole server. Then, if the player deals damage greater or equal to the hp added, they’re guaranteed the normal loot. And, any more damage becomes extra fragments.
However, not everyone only deals damage equal to the hp they added.
2. Don’t change hp scaling, but make the pillar stay around for 2-3 minutes after its initial death. It now becomes an “endless” mode, and it respawns, but this time, its shield is significantly larger. The goal is to kill as many enemies, not the pillar. After the shield breaks, it would instantaneously die and give out the loot.
It is important to note that it does stray too far from vanilla and will be a very foreign concept.
It is also important to note both of these(and the suggestion) have one severe flaw: not everyone plays glass cannon since some are tanks and some support.
Also, this is straying a bit too far from the suggestion but, perhaps in response to ^
Maybe we can award other roles? The healer is based on the amount healed, healing yourself or anyone who already has full hp won’t contribute.
The tank is based on the damage tanked, and constant death won’t be counted(debatable). The dodger(or what it’s called) would be measured by risk or how close you are to the boss while not getting hit. Aggro may also play a role.
In a semi-related note. Is it possible to add un-added items into survival. Like how dry-bombs, wet bombs, and lava bombs were removed from the obsidian crate is it possible to add items like lunatic cultist treasure bag or first fractal. Like making the zenith a crafting item and you can turn it into first fractal at a demon altar
There are many approaches, but the simplest one I could think so is to store the state/phase of the pillars and then respawn them with updated shields.
I think so
No, the server has no control over crafting recipes
It does stray a bit far from vanilla, but I feel that it’s still at an acceptable point. Though I’d still like to see other people’s view of this.
If you’ve died quickly, it shouldn’t count, but if you’ve tanked enough then died, maybe it definitely should since by that time, surrounding players would have had enough time to do significant damage.
Maybe it should also only count if your tanking actually helped players defeat the pillar, to stop people from just taking aggro acc, getting in the ballpit of enemies, and not hurt them at all, for the sole purpose of getting the full reward without doing much.
Is it really that bad for everyone to be awarded the same amount of Fragments for participation?
I think the distribution of Fragments should work how Treasure Bags drop.
All players who deal damage would get roughly the same amount of fragments.
Any system of distribution based on damage or killing would be unfavorable for differing playstyles. Additionally, competitive, DPS-based players would monopolize loot. This would only be further exacerbated if there is a threshold requirement.
I am against the addition of a convoluted evaluation system that accommodates for different playstyles. Regarding player assessment, I find many issues: the matter of proximity from the Pillar in regards to tanking, DPS, and dodging around lunar enemies; the matter of how Aggro-management would be evaluated; the possibility for malicious players to interfere with tankers and dodgers; etc.
I dislike this type of complexity, and would rather have something that is simple and straightforward.
If everyone is granted equal portions for dealing damage, this is not commensurable and would be a cause of discontent. However, I favor this approach the most. It is a simple system that dissuades loot competition and prevents stealing. It prevents better-geared players from leveraging others and gives everyone an equal chance for loot. I also find it suitable in a multiplayer server, and I would rather not encourage players to be active for multiple hours straight so that they be endowed with such an advantage over other less-active players.
Now thinking in retrospect, regardless of what system of distribution gets ultimately utilized, the ultimate form of distribution is trade.
Virtually every player obtains Moon Lord loot, and everyone is at least guaranteed a chance of exchanging Luminite for Fragments.
The initial Lunar Event is a very unique event concerning the Multiplayer Dynamic.
Every player has access to an equal amount of credit (Moon Lord loot)
Despite how cut-throat players are when gathering Fragments, they are not guaranteed their weapon of choice from Moon Lord.
Since defeating the Moon Lord requires ultimately requires cooperation, players are encouraged to share loot to increase their odds of defeating Moon Lord.
Do you have any idea about how much hp Moon Lord has these days? If I decided to steal all vortex fragments and not sharing them how would they defeat moon lord with such minimal forms of dps?
We would have to make Moon Lord despawn and start all over it again and again if some player decide to steal fragments. What I’m trying say is that Weapons from fragments are essentially for the Moon Lord fight, even the most prepared tank couldn’t survive all the fight against it.
If someone, especially some random, takes all of the fragments from a pillar, and then refuses to give them back because of stubbornness or greed, then Moon Lord will not be beaten because the other players can’t get fragment-based weapons. Those people often have no idea what they will do with all those fragments. Trust me, this happens, and it has happened this week with a player named shadow3979. A couple other players are also hoarding vortex fragments this week.
Not only that, not every Moon Lord fight is guaranteed to be a success. Often, the first one is a failure because of underpreparedness. We need 20 of each fragment to have another try, but what are we supposed to do when someone is hoarding all of a certain fragment and is refusing to share? The only choice is to fight the pillars again, but that doesn’t mean the same thing cannot happen once more. Not only that, most people are opposed to the idea of having to refight the pillars without fragment-based or luminite-infused gear.
You do have a point on having it drop the same amount of fragments for all players being better than having it drop based on how much damage someone’s done.
I do agree with this and, it was the original suggestion. The two alternatives I gave kept the concepts of this suggestion while trying to improve on them
Regardless of whether this claim is agreeable or not, it does need the consideration of other factors.
Also, I did address this:
To generally summarize the criticism I see, it seems to compromise the following points:
That the defeat of Moon Lord is not guaranteed, hence the distribution and trade of Moon Lord loot is preempted.
Fragment-derived weapons are necessary for the defeat of Moon Lord, and that some players are likely to not share the fragments they obtain.
In order to defeat Moon Lord, players ultimately rely on charity and goodwill. It is impossible to generalize all players, and some will be malicious or greedy.
Although this was not directly addressed in the original suggestion, this is an important reason why it was proposed in the first place.
My claim could be interpreted as an attack on the premise of the original suggestion, and because of that, I will not further that point. Additionally, I verily agree with these criticisms and I do not have anything to say against them.
