Anarchy in survival - WTF

I’ve been playing survival pretty intensely for the past few months, but in the past couple weeks it’s just gotten insane. Progression is being broken regularly and staffers are ignoring it, because they can’t really enforce the rules, or there isn’t a coding solution, or they’re too busy with other things to care enough. I do love this server and I’m not trying to be pissy and smear it, but it’s gotten so ridiculous I don’t want to play anymore.

First of all there’s something happening with the seeds causing dungeon mobs to start spawning way too early, like first day. Add to that a few loopholes and exploits with the DGs, and ppl are getting dungeon loot within hours of restart by farming dungeon mobs for bones and keys and then fishing for dungeon crates just barely inside the dungeon biome. No one is naming names or reporting because a few of the most popular regulars are doing it and anyone else involved gets phat lutz. They’re even talking openly about it in chat for staff to plainly see in phase, but nothing has been actually done because no one has extensively recorded and reported irrefutable hard evidence, and no one is entirely sure if a seed exploit is specifically against the rules, or even progression breaking.

Another big problem for progression is Duke. Debuffing it halfway through the week was an unbelievably bad balance decision because it gives everyone flying mounts and endgame gear capable of taking down every other boss, but ppl have figured out various lag and rail exploits to kill him even before it’s debuffed, like last night. Now for the rest of the run there’s no challenge left for the better players except waiting for boss timers to expire and/or exploits to take them down early.

On top of all that are the usual godmode, max digging speed, and xray cheats that allow some players to burn through the blocks and go straight to every world chest within -minutes- of a hard reset and every regen after that. The evidence is indirect - those of us trying to play by the rules find nearly every world chest already looted, and the ones cheating brag about their finds in chat, but nothing is done about it unless someone happens to catch them doing it -and- record it for reporting. Which almost never happens.

What appears to be going on here is a lack of staff involvement and broken tools for players to alert them like /pingstaff. Glasia seems to be the only one actually paying attention to phase and only intervenes in the most extreme and blatant cheating/griefing incidents. Many more go unreported and generally ignored. Big Russ is training for mod and tries to be helpful, though there’s only so much one player can do. A few other staff do occasionally show up to deal with problems but not nearly often enough. They’re usually busy with some other area like zombies and pvp. The result is good players not able to do anything about cheating unless they really want to spend hours exhaustively documenting and reporting, cheaters doing whatever they want and just denying it if called out, and gray area exploits breaking normal progression on a regular basis. It might as well just go full anarchy 2b2t if nothing is actually done (or can be done) about it.

And don’t even try to shift the blame to the players for not policing themselves better. We all know the reporting system is a pain in the ass and doesn’t actually stop the abuse no matter how many kiddies get banned every day.

I do feel sorry for the few remaining staff that actually care. It’s not a paid position and there’s a constant avalanche of bs they have to slog through every moment they’re online. Maybe once long ago they were greater in number and involvement, but these days it’s just another great server/empire withering and dying.

So long and thanks for all the fish.

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I completely agree with this post. The issue was that I was never in a position to do anything about it. Us staffers do care, but there is only so much we are allowed to do without consulting those above us first.

Your first point, the exploitation of dungeon loot.
I am in agreement 100% with what you said on this. My opinion is that no one has any business trying to get any dungeon loot if skeletron has not yet been beaten. The exception to this would be potions, books, the water bolt, and water candles, given that they are above the point of where dungeon guardians spawn. Keys, bones, and crates found in this range should be discarded since it breaks progression. Consequences for breaking progression should be enforced, although staff are overwhelmed with dealing with rule breakers, moderating the server’s communication platforms, and upkeeping/updating the server as it is.

Your second point, duke fishron and boss progression as a whole.
I had this idea that instead of having a boss timer which discourages but does not prevent players from killing the boss and breaking progression, that a timer be set up so that up until it expires, the boss is unable or prevented from spawning. For example, the Wall of Flesh has its buff timer on until Sunday or early Monday morning (I cannot quite remember which). What if, instead of being buffed, the WoF is simply unable to be summoned until this timer expires. Another idea I had was that up until the boss timer expires, boss summoner items such as the mechanical worm, bloody spine, etc. when held freeze the player until the item is discarded, similar to how dynamite works. There are flaws to these ideas of course, but it is better to brainstorm solutions than to outright give up and let what is happening continue.

Your third point, players with modified clients using godmode and such.
Us staff members are doing everything we can to try and address each issue as they arise, but there just isn’t a way to completely prevent this sadly. I became moderator because I felt that there were potentially times of the day when DG was less than optimally staffed (actively staffed ingame), and that I could try and fit myself into these times to remedy this. I also believe that rather than solely waiting for reports to come in and address them, I would be as active as possible to catch rule breakers in the act and lessen their impact entirely. Not all staff members are capable of constantly doing this, we all need to live life IRL too, I get that. Some have moved on from solely moderating to actively updating and upkeeping the server, as I see in the case of some admins and dimension managers. I do think though that having more staff actively (and regularly) playing and moderating Survival, PvE, PvP, and Gamemodes is a necessity to keeping the server optimally regulated.

As for the comment about about staff involvement and the number of staff, I’d say it has actually stayed the same or increased in count despite the overall decline in popularity of Terraria in the last few years. Back in 2014-2015 when I first joined Dark Gaming and played as a guest, I recall that there were fewer dimensions, so fewer staff were needed. Terraria was in it’s prime, and the server was starting to blossom and grow into what it is today. To say this server is withering away and dying is also just incorrect. So long as players need a place to come together, whether to get free items and leave, or to socialize and play in ways not possible in vanilla Terraria, Dark Gaming will exist, improve, and persevere.

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I do understand that there are hard limits on what can be done with Terraria’s code. It wasn’t and still isn’t optimized for mp servers, and even though some coding miracles have been performed to make it more viable and interesting, there’s just no possible way to eliminate cheating and exploits. That being said, I agree that staff simply needs to be more present and active in what’s actually going on at any given time. That means babysitting and policing, which is not only a thankless job but also takes time and attention away from arguably more important things like keeping the backend services running. Or perhaps actually playing the various game modes to see what’s going on for themselves.

The most obvious solution is more mods that are dedicated to keeping an eye on things in-game and given tools to enforce the rules rather than maybe responding to alarm bells indirectly an hour or so after something bad has already happened. Yes that’s much easier said than done. Most of us have rl responsibilities and simply can’t be online around the clock to keep the children in line. Besides no one really wants to be on-call 24/7 for an unpaid position. But 5-10 mods logging in semi-regularly would at least help reduce the nearly constant rulebreaking. Also having more clearly defined rules would be nice.

Sadly I expect that none of this will undergo the formality of occurring. To be fair maybe I’m biased by only seeing the more recent decline into chaos, I haven’t been around on this particular server for years to observe the various ups and downs. But I have seen this happen on countless other servers for decades since BBSs. As you said Terraria’s popularity is and has been in decline for a long time, and with that is also a natural decline in dedication by admins, staff, and players to keep their 2nd jobs going. I’m not judging, it is what it is. Yes Terraria is still a great game, and DG is still an outstanding server, but nothing lasts forever. I keep finding references to functions in the past like despawning bosses at spawn that no longer work, and the rules haven’t been updated for god knows how long to reflect this. Maybe this last-last-last update will restore some of its former glory and fix a lot of long-standing cross-platform problems. Maybe it will cause even more problems. Probably both. In any case Re-Logic has been pretty clear about wanting to move on. So I admire your positivity, and of course I’d love to see things improve here, but I’m going to remain skeptical that DG can somehow keep right on truckin’ when entropy has already set in and fixable problems aren’t being fixed across the board despite a lot of noises being made about it. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

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If we want more moderators cycling through each dimension and “policing and babysitting” for a certain time, we would need more people to step up and apply for the moderator position. My current numbers may be off, but according to phase there are only 11 active staff members. Active meaning they either do administrative work, help maintain the dimensions, moderate DG, or do some combination of the three. Active is also a relative term, some are more active than others. Regardless, my point is that we can talk about these issues forever, and not have them ever resolved, or more people could step up to the plate and give a helping hand. I am not insulting you or putting down what you say, I just mean that simply acknowledging the issue isn’t enough to resolve it.

-I really don’t mean to sound harsh, really. I am not angry or anything lol I just don’t see any other way to put it.

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To be honest, I’m not against progression jumps. IMO Dungeon Looting(assuming you don’t use the ““exploit””) in the way you described and Duke Rush is perfectly fine. However, I’d like to see that it’d be made harder than it is for such a great jump in progression rather than punishing people

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I suppose that is true. If the majority of survival wants progression to be rushed and out of order then that is the will of the people.

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No offense taken, that’s a totally fair point. But how often does any lowly player like myself really want to essentially stop playing the game and take on greater responsibility? How many mods are there, how many are in training? Too few, obviously.

My point is: if the higher-ups actually want the rampant cheating to improve, then they also need to step up and clarify the rules before dumping the responsibility of enforcing them on volunteer players who don’t have enough incentive or tools to do so. I would apply for mod myself if I thought that it would help restore some order, but there seems to be no clear consensus on what exactly the survival rules are, what is exploiting and what is not, or what a balanced progression should be. Some things are clear and enforceable but a lot of other things are not. Breaking the game/rules for teh lulz and e-peen bragging rights seems to be far more important to most players than anything else.

Fine, if that’s what (mostly) everyone wants, then so be it. But don’t pretend to be all about cooperation and “Everyone is treated equally against the rules” when survival is really just another anarchy-lite server.

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Seriously though, if breaking boss progression somehow isn’t a problem because there’s no rule specifically against it, then why is stealing the golem altar a bad thing? If the majority of players want to disregard common sense rules and admins are unable or unwilling to do anything about it, DG is doomed to be overrun by lolh4x. I haven’t even mentioned how often zombies maps have one or more godmoders. It’s almost every map, and doesn’t get reported because one godmode can prevent and recover wipes. All these griefers, cheaters, and exploits have ruined the server for anyone who wants to play fairly and by the rules, which is apparently a small minority.

Admins need to sack up and regain control themselves. That is all.

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You can just ping me or Madeira if someone steals lihzahrd altar

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While these cheaters are a problem like I mentioned before, we are doing all we can to ban them as we see them.

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What are the specific loopholes/exploits you’re referring to here? TPing to a dead/alive player inside the dungeon? Something like this would be directly covered by the rule on exploitation, and is inherently bannable due to that,

#2 Exploits

An exploit is unintended behaviour of the game that can be done without using third-party modifications (as that would be considered violation of S5#1). This also includes unintended behaviour of the server. The use of exploits is forbidden and punishable by a ban. It will be up to the discretion of staff to provide a warning instead, where an exploit has a minor impact.

There’s not much that can be done about this in particular. There’s virtually no way to detect the latter in Terraria without the user giving it up themselves, and running into someone using max digging speed is a complete chance, one that requires you to be playing survival yourself and paying attention to that player. This is why reporting exists. Inconvenient, and possibly time consuming, sure, but there’s a significantly lower number of staff members than there are normal members. This means the more people bringing attention to it(via reports), the greater chance of it actually being resolved. There’s no way for us to see everything, especially when it’s low-profile cheats being used.

/pingstaff isn’t broken, but instead obsolete. It never pinged staff on discord, phase, or anywhere other than Survival. All it did(still does) was spawn a firework above a staff members head when they’re in survival. It was never very useful for what it was to begin with, and still isn’t.

Can’t say I understand what you’re saying here. Yes, it’s not going to stop the abuse, because there’s no way to simply snap and get rid of the people causing the problems. What doesn’t make sense is saying this after saying all you did about cheating going unpunished. “No matter how many cheaters get banned, new cheaters simply fill in afterwards, and banning them isn’t going to change a thing.” It’s a non-statement. Not reporting cheaters because it’s tedious doesn’t help at all, especially when I’ve not seen a single report any time recently for Survival on anything other than godmode users to go off of.

I will say, though, the addition of new staff members, particularly ones active in Survival/Zombies, will definitely lighten the load. This just brings us to what Russ has already said though. For that to happen, we either need people applying themselves, or to show the qualities of a staff member via the very reporting you call a pain in the ass and in-game behavior. Picking a random Tom, Dick, or Harry won’t cut it for obvious reasons.

You do realize that staff members aren’t born staff members, right? “Lowly players” are exactly what we were and are, which means half of this contradicts the other half. You say people like you, which I assume is referring to the regular player, are unlikely to want to stop playing the game to take on a greater responsibility, and then proceed to say there are too few a number of mods in training/total.

Where else do you expect those moderators to come from besides those regular players?


P.S. After re-reading(especially the last part) I realized I might(probably) come across as condescending, just know that isn’t my intent and that I’m too lazy to think of a way to re-write it and address the same points in doing so lol

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I mean jumping in progression, not blocking it for everyone. That’s just a selfish move and people breaking golem altar should be banned

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the one report about someone stealing the lizard altar broke me to metaphorical tears

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It used to happen quite often actually, but that was back in version 1.3.

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I apologize if I’m coming across too bitter and accusatory. I do feel salty about having to quit playing because I can’t stand all the cheaters and exploiters, and I’m sure I’m not the only one.

Look, this is simple. Kids (and by that I mean anyone acting immaturely including adults) won’t do what they’re told and follow the rules unless they fear immediate consequences. Otherwise, they just do whatever they want knowing it’s very unlikely they’ll get caught, and even if they are caught and reported it’ll likely be a long time before anyone does something about it, if at all.

Again I’m sorry to sound harsh but saying there’s nothing more you can do is just laughable and irresponsible. You’re still trying to shift the blame for rampant cheating on us players for not reporting enough, or not caring enough to step up to mod, or some other bs spin/dodge, as if fair players all being snitches and filing out exhaustive reports is the only possible way to inform admins of rule breakers and good candidates for mods. It’s clearly not working.

The painfully obvious solution is for staff to be present and involved in game as much as humanly possible to immediately put a stop to it. Not just leaving it to run unattended and unmonitored unless there’s an emergency of some kind, which is what I’ve observed the entire time I’ve been playing here. I do understand not wanting to commit to being in game because of other responsibilities, or staff shortages, or not enough quality applicants, but the bottom line and the root cause of all this madness is a distinct lack of authority in survival. Anytime cheaters think no one of importance is watching, they go nuts. I’m glad that Big Russ is there to help now, but he’s only one guy who has to sleep sometime, in a vital role that has been neglected and avoided by higher-ups too long.

If you want more quality mods to apply then I suggest you back them up by being present instead of absentee landlords. The survival rules need to be updated and clarified, which you’ve carefully avoided even acknowledging. Mods need the tools and authority to act immediately against cheaters, like freezing or kicking without having to go through a long drawn out process of filling out a report and getting an admin to drop whatever else they’re doing and investigate, assuming any are even online. That way they can continue to play and enforce the rules at the same time with minimal time and effort.

If that’s how it works already, I haven’t seen any evidence of it in months of playing. The longer it takes for staff to do something, the more likely cheaters will just keep doing it anyway and trash everyone else’s game.

And on that note I’ve tried to reasonably explain as much as I can, more than I really should have. Sadly I expect you’ll just pick this apart and call it contradictory nonsense and very little will change anyway. Have fun with that. Thank you all for your time and good luck.

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Not everyone has 12+ hours of free time to give like I do sometimes, that is just not realistic. We are lucky to have the staff that we have, and would warmly welcome anyone else that feels they are up to the challenge of being a mod (given that they are mature and active enough to handle this role).

As for the cheaters, I’ve said numerous times that there is no way to prevent them from playing, just to deal with them as they come.

As for the survival rules, I agree they probably could use a slight update, I agree. The issue is that there really isn’t a rule stating “players are not allowed to break progression” or some variation of this. As I see it, the boss timers were instated to discourage progression breaking, but not prevent it. The majority of survival players seem ok with this, and given that there isn’t a rule against it, we are not able to enforce breaking progression. When I first started playing survival, it seemed cool to beat the game as fast as humanely possible in whatever means necessary. Lag, i-frame abuse, you name it, just whatever got us to the finish line the fastest. As time passed though, and every reset was beat quicker than the last, resets began to feel bland, as if we were just going through the motions again and again. It seems that the boss timers were put into place to lengthen a reset, as well as to simply discourage progression breaking. My point is that to an extent, these timer were successful in prolonging a reset, and letting us veterans truly enjoy them again. But so long as the majority wants survival operating the way it currently is, and so long as the rules stay as they are now, survival will remain the same. We can only enforce what we are allowed to, the rules determine this.

I felt the same as you did about a lot of these issues too, until I became a moderator. Some of my goals remain the same, like trying get control of rampant cheaters in nearly every dimension, and to hold people accountable for their words and actions. But I began to realize that staff only have so much time they can allocate toward the server, so they have to choose what is most important to them, and try and make a difference. If we all say we “we need more staff, the server is in trouble” and no one steps up to offer a helping hand, we are forced to simply work with what we currently have.

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Your solution is for staff members to give up their time for other more important things in their life and to instead stand around in Survival? How is that the obvious solution? That’s not a solution. This entire thread makes no sense. Player reports are extremely valuable, where are your reports every day if this is so common? Where is your Moderator application? If you actually cared about fixing this problem, then you, as part of the community as much as I or any other person, would do something. You have the power to do that, but you have not. This is a community-run server, which means the community is part of running it. Talking about blame at the first sight of responsibility shows you have little care for this very core part of what any community is, and why I believe that this topic is worthless in solving a problem, if the entire thing is just accusing people of not spending 24/7 of their life on it.

To draw a line between the Staff and the rest of the community is telling how you are disconnected from what this server is. Staff are simply people proven themselves to be capable of taking on the responsibility of making serious decisions about who should be banned. It’s not a business and people don’t get paid to be here. Complaining that other people should obviously spend their entire waking life sitting in survival just to deal with a problem you seem so adamant to do nothing about yourself is very disrespectful to the time that Staff already do spend out of their free time here

Go through the process yourself to become a Moderator and execute your obvious solution, you have the power to do it if that’s what you really want, in the meantime, you can simply be present and involved in the game as much as humanly possible reporting everyone that’s not following the rules so they can be dealt with. If you truly believe in your words, execute them yourself.

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In regards to your criticism regarding a lack of staff involvement, here’s my opinion:

Simply put, this server does not pay people to moderate the server.

Trust and good-will is an essential part of maintaining server integrity – after all, this server is community-driven. Because of this, I have to agree with Rofle.

The active player-base of this server is relatively small, and the few who do attain staff positions are seldom active on a consistent basis. Considering the primary demographic of this server, it’s really just adolescent teenagers policing other adolescent teenagers in their free-time.

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I sadly agree 100% with this post dg survival has gotten far out of hand recently. (Part of why I have tooken a break) however if we want to enforce this things need to change.

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this is one of the primary reasons I quit survival, there are too many players with xray running around with more loot in the first day than I get in the first week of a singleplayer playthrough. I also agree with the lack of staff here in survival.

however, fubar, as rofle previously said (he already stated my main points I was going to say, but anywho), I like to say “If you want something done, do it yourself.” You clearly havent heard this advice, or you would be practically sprinting over to Moderator Apps in order to try to fix this injustice. Additoinally, as an admin in a different server, I know that all staff were once simple noobs. I remember walking in, and legit saying ‘what does /warp mean’. Staff are also players. There’s no reason we have to separate the “two” parties, when they are the same, with one having more responsibilities.

It is also obviously not reasonable for staff to be spending as much time as possible online in survival. The majority of them are adults or teenagers, and if you aren’t one, let me tell you this: they have lives too. They arent robots who can devote themselves to every moment online. They have to go to work/school, they have to eat, they have to enjoy their lives, and they have to sleep. You aren’t treating staff like people who have their own work in their own lives. You arent treating staff like players who were also once like you. And not only are you running around, saying staff need to do everything, but you are also pinning the blame on THEM for the problems and the shit. While I do agree we need more staff online, you’re blaning them, while the actual blame is on bystanders like you who see a problem, feel angry about it (as you should!), but then complain about it, tell others to fix it, and don’t actually do anything yourself. Before this reflects to me, I’m not sure if I’m even eligible for staff here, primarily because I was born a few years earlier -_-

also, reporting is fine, It may be slow, and for some reason some of them are ignored, but it’s the best chance we have for now.

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