U already have huge downsides like ability to die, remove ur armor/weapon or if valiant to take venom/confusion. Why not atleast remove money price from that? Maybe it will make Valiant atleast a bit more useful
Both abilities are fine as it is.
3 Likes
Sure? I never saw u using any of them. I see probably once a month how people using them. Grind for ability that has 2 downsides and 1 good side? Nonsense for me. Especially valiant, it is 2nd worthless after guardian
1 Like
I agree. While wish may need the price penalty (it’s really useful in non-hc), Valiant is literally just a contradictory ability that kills more than it saves. It grants regen buffs, but if you get hit you get pretty powerful debuffs. Basically, don’t get hit in order to get buffs that help you if you get hit…? Doesn’t that defeat the purpose?
Yeah, no price penalty would be nice for valiant.
2 Likes
Well they are fine
About wish
take in consider also that you can heal 50%HP suddently
As well increasing your HP is very useful, specially in lobbies where people dont want to deal with shaman, or just if the HP is too expensive, or the Sanic Speed buff is useful to deal with parkour where you should be expected to build speed (Or the pool at winter scream lol)
, And aswell the weapon and armor deleting can be countered by changing them to another slot, being unaboidable just the Damage and Killing
(The debuffs just partially with ankh)
So wish is ok with the penalty
About Valiant
Valiant i would say that is like a Risk reward ability, The catch is that only works well with At least 200+HP which is a pain to get unless you are playing with players that know to do teamwork, or cryptic castle
Valiant indeed seems a bit unfair, while you can almost negate everything with ankh shield,just one venom debuff is enough to kill you at 150HP~
But mostly, seems like an ability that works fine late game, so maybe just from 25% to a 12.5% penalty would be good.
3 Likes
I see no need. Wish is already an incredibly potent ability (and since you’re judging the validity of our arguments based on experience, I regularly use it to spice up Cryptic runs), capable of granting more max HP than Shaman with less effort, or healing most of your HP instantly—with the high max HP it grants, this means it can heal up hundreds upon hundreds instantly, or with some purchases and a Lifeforce potion, thousands of health.
As for the bad bits, well, you get those on occasion, but they’re largely avoidable and/or able to be mitigated. You get a good amount of warning for Suffering and your vertical movement isn’t impaired, allowing you to get to safety fast, Pain is negligible damage until lategame (at which point it still isn’t too severe), Death (and Teammate Death) is mildly inconvenient but again, you and your comrades get a warning before it, allowing for preparations to rapidly be made, and Weapon / Armour Removal can be avoided entirely by just moving some items around when you see the message.
People diss the ability because it has downsides and is generally overshadowed by the Holy Trio (sentry, shaman, dw) but you really just need to experience it and get used to it. Pay attention, and Wish is one of the strongest abilities in the game: Speed can cheese parkour and allow you to cross the map like you have Telekinesis, Regeneration is very powerful for tanking in the frontlines or hanging out in the back trying to regain life, Damage is just raw brutal power (and pretty good power at that), Revive Teammate can be used for impossible aerial revivals and to rev people before your teammates carelessly murder everything and lose you an ability upgrade, the list goes on; Wish can win you a game if used well, you just need to use it well.
I may have far less experience with Valiant, but consider this: several of the debuffs can be negated with Ankh Shield or high max HP (central points of any tank who would be using it), high max HP also makes the regen buffs incredibly potent (again, users would have that), in Hardcore its downsides don’t even apply, and Sentries can be used to draw aggro so the Valiant can easily “farm” regen buffs from the mobs attacking it. Furthermore, I don’t think your solution is the solution. Making things less expensive won’t solve any of the issues with Valiant, we should instead be looking to change the status effects it grants to be more balanced on the player’s side (rather than ending up killing them more often than it saves them). That’s just my take though, and I’m interested to hear other ideas on how to “fix” Valiant: I will admit that it is a rather underwhelming ability, even with the points listed above, especially for how annoying (or hard, depending on your methods) it is to obtain.
3 Likes
… and lose 20%
But removing armor isn’t
Agreed
And price penalty really succ at that point
But no one with wish plays that
…or kill. Also instantly… Maybe even in mid-air
Or damage the same. Or lose all your movement and visibility in a single moment
When u r on late rounds, there is a lot of text to appear, SO IT CAN JUST NOT WARN U
Ah yes, every map has wings and every map so open that u can dodge everything with wings, which exist in like less than 10% of maps
Heal too, it saved me like 3 times in general, while hurt a lot
What if u left alone and hope for revival wish of teammate on other side of map but u die and ruin whole run?
Again, in most situations u don’t
If u have 2+ weapons, u need to sacrifice one 100%
But suffer leaves u in front of bigilion lazer berds without any hope
But totally worthless without weapon, that you just lost
Or kill that person, who in other side if map, while ur teammates, as u said, carelessly murder everything and lose you an ability upgrade.
Also randoms won’t even understand, that they about to die
Its literally luck-based ability
Yeah, and i hate that. That is why, i think, when you have ankh shield on, loadout of possible debuffs should change, or at least make non-ankh debuffs much more frequently.
… its useless. Buffs are useless, but confusion can kill you easily
That will atleast make it look like its fair
2 Likes
^ spam
flief makes a good point, wish can make or break a game on a whim, and the break part can easily be negligated. The make allows huge buffs and abilities that embody tons of other abilities with zero effort.
valiant is underwhelming, i agree.
Maybe lowered prices isn’t the way to go with valiant. However, two people have petitioned for valiant buff changes, and zero attention has been payed to them, at least by the staff. So far, that hasn’t really worked.
3 Likes
You can counter this by unequiping, or swapping to vanity
Well, but has way more weight the HP regen still, and its a bigger number too
3 Likes
I believe there are different problems at play here. Removing the price penalty for both abilities won’t solve the problems that are there and the ones that you mentioned
Imo Valiant is a niche ability for very specific use cases, so just because it’s not used everywhere doesn’t mean it needs its price penalty removed
Meanwhile, wish still needs the “I want my armor” and related wishes. Permanently removing equipment is just not fun. That doesn’t mean the price penalty needs to be removed, in fact, removing it does nothing
4 Likes
yeah, id say to combat an unfair mechanic, instead of making another part of the ability stronger, you just REMOVE the unfair part and such
so remove the thing that removes your gear instead of changing the otehr parts (if it needs to be strong, just have the replacement be really harsh, like alot of debuffs)
2 Likes
oh god the QUOTE SPAM
20 < 50/2, so I don’t get your point here.
Except that’s completely avoidable.
I… I play that ;A;
It isn’t instant. There’s a windup. You have time to prepare. It’s definitely on you if you see that you’re going to die in 3 seconds and immediately start flying straight into the air.
Again, not instantly. Also, didn’t I literally address this?
I have not had this happen once in all of my time playing Zombies. You definitely just didn’t notice it, or you saw the first one then it changed and you weren’t looking.
Jumping. Mounts. Yes, wings. Hiding in a safe place because you get a warning before it happens.
Thank you for the support, it’s healed me for over 3.5k while I was about to die on round 16+ Cryptic and allowed me to rev my friends. Iirc on that run we made it to 20 with Wish’s support. I got like 3 Pain wishes in all 4 of those obscenely long, Zenith-less Lunar Flare-less rounds.
A major rule of gambling is knowing when to stop. Why are you continuing to gamble when the entire run is at stake?
Again, this has never happened to me once, you just need to pay attention when you use your ability.
This is incorrect, you legit just need to move the affected weapon out of the slot (and maybe put it in the trash too?? I forgot, it’s been a while since I last got this effect) and the wish becomes ineffective.
I’m noticing a pattern here, you’re criticising exclusively the downsides without even considering the existence of the upsides, such as how literally every good wish is equal to or, more often, stronger than the bad version.
…but you yourself acknowledge indirectly that you cannot lose all your weapons.
You really seem fixated on the idea of the person you know you’re consistently going to have a chance of killing being on the other side of the map from you whenever you use your ability. But ignoring the possibility of using Wish properly and hovering over them a lot and/or using Wish properly and not spamming your ability at the end of every round, valid point.
So luck decides when you can use it? No. No it does not.
Wha—you wanted to buff Valiant, and now you want to severely nerf it? What is your take, what side are you picking?
I was admittedly dumb with that point (regen doesn’t matter in hc) but doesn’t Confusion only actually apply in HC when you have multiple lives? And can’t you just use the opposite directional keys? Before you tell me I’ve never experienced Confusion, I have.
4 Likes
Wish’s surcharge won’t be removed because it’s much more manageable than Valiant. Additionally, some more changes will follow to make Wish less risky. Meanwhile, Valiant’s surcharge may be decreased or removed depending on the outcome of further testing