PvP Change Suggestions

Suggestions Archive PvP
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These are only suggestions if you didn’t read the title.

  1. the ban of worm scarf - this is the most controversial change I’m asking for possibly, but it’s leading to a defensive meta that isn’t that fun
    and just takes too long to kill someone in

  2. Sniper changes - The sniper rifle doesn’t really feel like a sniper rifle, more of a pump action rifle per say. it does too little damage and is way
    too fast for it to be considered a sniper. It should be much more high risk high reward.

  3. Increase general Damage - In order to achieve the purpose of a worm scarf ban a damage increase could be in order, not for any particular
    reason other than to counter extreme tank builds and make PvP more fast paced

  4. buffs for under-used weapons - there were some weapons that were “buffed” but just aren’t that good still, I.E. Aerial Bane. On another not I
    think the community should be able to send in weapon change requests like this.

  5. another not in server suggestion - a PvP changelog, self-explanatory

  6. less HP - a change to the 1200 HP plugin to make PvP… More fast paced

  7. Ban on FTS (Frozen Turtle Shell) - Same reason as worm scarf, and just plain annoying.

  8. This is a personal request of mine but not something that big of a deal, to remove prefixes on armor being allowed in pvp, it can kinda break
    the game, not in any specific way just the extra defense or attack aren’t natural
    but I’m a 1.2 pvper from Jupiter so I’m not exactly used to it.

  9. ban shiny stone - people running away and healing isn’t fun to deal with so I’m hoping a ban on shiny stone could change that.

  10. Ban mechanical cart - this isn’t a “change” but a temporary fix to cart hopping if necessary, because you can travel 100 units very quickly

  11. Arena Fix - lack of honey pools on the right side of the arena, etc. the arena is a bit hectic and should be changed a bit in shape and honey
    pools or likewise

once again, to all the people reading and being butt hurt about it, its just suggestions. you have a better idea perhaps? say it then stop whining
Make sure to like comment and subscribe if you haven’t already kthxbai <3

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Ban the Worm Scarf? Your reasoning is that battles take too long… This is not because of Worm Scarf. The problem here is how easy regenerating HP is. I’ve talked with Blanc about this, and we have plans to remove Shiny Stone along with some other items.

[quote=NorthernTilted]2. Sniper changes - The sniper rifle doesn’t really feel like a sniper rifle, more of a pump action rifle per say. it does too little damage and is way too fast for it to be considered a sniper. It should be much more high risk high reward. [/quote] I personally love how the SR currently is. Not too OP, yet extremely useful. But my personal opinion on weapons doesn’t matter in the slightest when it comes to weapon buffs/nerfs. Currently, debuffs cannot be applied to weapons via our current PvP changer system. This will be added in the future, and weapons will be reevaluated.

Banning Worm Scarf would call for a decrease in general damage, not an increase… Worm Scarf is currently a needed part of any meta-build, due to the high damage of most weapons. We’ve been buffing and nerfing weapons based upon the meta, which includes Worm Scarf. Once again, it’s the ease of regenerating HP that’s the problem here when it comes to fast-paced combat. People know that they can go slow and regenerate life, so they do.

[quote=NorthernTilted]buffs for under-used weapons - there were some weapons that were “buffed” but just aren’t that good still, I.E. Aerial Bane. On another not[e] I
think the community should be able to send in weapon change requests like this.[/quote]
The weapon buffs/nerfs are in no way done, and we will continue to balance weapons as we go. I already test out weapons based on community suggestions, although a request system built into the system itself may be useful.

This is already being worked upon; an auto-updating list of the current buffed/nerfed weapons. However, it has for the most part been decided that a log of all the past changed will not be provided, simply because of how much we change the weapons.

PvP is already extremely fast paced if you’re good enough. Once again, though, people will run and hide to quickly regenerate health at no risk to their wellbeing. This is why we’re focusing on regenerative methods, rather than general health amount.

Yep. FTS is far too OP to be allowed in general combat. It’s already in line for a ban.

[quote=NorthernTilt]This is a personal request of mine but not something that big of a deal, to remove prefixes on armor being allowed in pvp, it can kinda break
the game, not in any specific way just the extra defense or attack aren’t natural
but I’m a 1.2 pvper from Jupiter so I’m not exactly used to it.[/quote]
Then get used to it. Everyone can use it, and it’s only a minor buff. We don’t shape PvP to the personal desires of a single player when there’s no legitimate reason to do so.

I’ve already addressed this a few times in my previous rebuttals. Valhalla breastplate will also likely meet the ban-hammer, due to its regeneration ability stacked with its base defense.

Blanc already found a Minecart Track setup that stops cart-hopping. Whether we implement it or not is still up for debate, although it’s most likely to be added.

[quote=NorthernTilted] Arena Fix - lack of honey pools on the right side of the arena, etc. the arena is a bit hectic and should be changed a bit in shape and honey
pools or likewise[/quote]
I’ll polish up the arena at some point.

Alright, looks like I can stop whining then.

Sorry for any incoherencies or omissions, I’ve just woken up from a rather rugged nap…

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thanks for replying and not being butthurt, made my day. I kinda disagree with the worm scarf/regen thing but as long as the same issue is being addressed I cant complain much, but it wont really change the fact that a tank set can run 24/7 and be annoying as ever. I just feel like worm scarf is still too crutch and I feel it allows for far more carelessness in pvp than should be allowed. As for the prefixed armor thing that was really just me taking an opportunity, kek <3.

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“3. Increase general Damage - In order to achieve the purpose of a worm scarf ban a damage increase could be in order, not for any particular
reason other than to counter extreme tank builds and make PvP more fast paced”
Yeh, that would be really nice! Most players with over 110 defense die very hard, combat should really be faster. To be honest, I kinda get bored of over-using some weapons to deal like the biggest damage possible to kill even a tank n00b.

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I kinda think an increase in damage is a bad thing. Most noobs die very very VERY quickly, so that’s telling me its not the damage that needs to be fixed but the defense. When Tourm was online earlier I had brought up the idea of removing the 6th accessory and Worm Scarf in order to make kits a bit more specific. The removal of a 6th accessory makes it a lot harder to have a really tanky kit alongside decent damage. 5 accessory limit makes kits more specific to defense or offense without being heavy in the other value. The Removal of Worm Scarf better enforces this idea as well. Raising the damage of most weapons is NOT a good idea, that will just make it too easy to kill people in seconds once again, and nobody liked that.

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So i just want to say, before the damage modifier update came out, i ran a tanky build that was meant for survival, and it was still easily countered by fast builds or damage builds. This was including the worm scarf, banning ws may make tanks a lot less likely, but to me it seems like pushibg everyone to go the fast or only damage specs.

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I agree with Blanc/Tourm now that I think about it but only somewhat, as I still feel a minor increase to damage dealt might be at least something worth trying but I doubt it’ll be what I was hoping for, kek I guess you write mistaken ideas when you’re tired. Honestly I feel like pvp is on a knifes edge between being too easy to stall in or too easy to die in.
On a semi-separate note, rather than increase damage generally, I feel just reworking the damage of certain weapons would be a much better idea. As long as the tank meta doesn’t become a thing I’ll be happy with any damage/defense/etc. changes.

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Cart-hop proof rails have been implemented in the main arena.

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I think it would be more interesting without the 6th accessory slot. Would make people think more of what accessories to choose.

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i didn’t know there was a tanky meta or that there was even pvp’ing, i thought i was playing hide and go seek all this time which is pointed out by avery in terms of focusing on regeneration

whether or not the previous (or the previous one before that) or current iteration of pvp’ing can be called fast paced or not doesn’t matter, it’s ultimately about expounding and capitalizing upon opportunities, in this case it’s continuing applied pressure to secure the kill

the “meta” you’re highlighting is the result of multiple survivability options that are easily available to players to use (and abuse), notwithstanding worm scarf (and fts but it was supposed to be banned from use in the first place), which includes shield / beetle stacks (which have to be stripped in the first place or else your damage is negligible)

expert’s .75 defense rating in relation to the lackluster scaling on every equipment that has been buffed / nerfed (which secures solar set’s viability to the point of trumping all other options, even with the other damage types which are supposedly better with other class armor’s to which they can’t even out-trade with the same weapons with 30%+ damage over because of diminishing returns)

slimy saddle compounded with cart hopping is such an easy method to disengage that it pretty much guarantees survival if it is not read accurately or if the player is incapable of chasing, in which about a minute of chip damage is undone with shiny stone + innate regen just to slap you in the face (case in point when 75% of the time i spend “pvp’ing” is actually just gap closing and chasing someone across the map)

1200 hp is no different from 600 hp, it’s just that now players can actually opt to back out in time to become target practice

what can be considered meta is also stale to begin with, there are not many viable choices, let’s have a look at the options

wings
tabi
shield
scarf
stone x3
frog

so one slot is pretty much taken by wings by default
frog leg is made redundant by the arena design and slime + featherfall / hooking, so let’s just toss that out
i don’t see any real thinking or choices to be made here, i just see mandatory pick, a ban on worm scarf just frees a slot for another mandatory pick

the only reason i would disagree with a worm scarf ban is because i can use it as a vanity item because otherwise all it means is that players can melt each other faster because
1: they most likely replaced it with an extra stone
2: no 17% dr to get in the way

otherwise i have nothing to comment on the rest of your points, i legit have no clue what players think anymore when it’s mostly a situation where player one has a 750+ hp lead on player two even with all the options available for a supposed tank meta

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^ 10/10 explanation

my opinion has changed over the time, so the fast paced part of what I had said isn’t as much my opinion any more. Rather, I think there should be more kill weapons and varied accessories.

“whether or not the previous (or the previous one before that) or current iteration of pvp’ing can be called fast paced or not doesn’t matter, it’s ultimately about expounding and capitalizing upon opportunities, in this case it’s continuing applied pressure to secure the kill”

I agree but applying pressure has basically turned into one of 2 things, with the latter of the 2 being the more common option taken.

A. Rushing with mid range/long range weapons I.E. Sniper
B. Rushing in with melee weapons

At the moment, its near impossible to secure a kill without playing risky in some way, which is good until you’re mainly using Phammer/Guillotines to actually get the kill. Rarely will you find someone adept at using range to chase down a low hp target.

and with use of slime (and formerly, cart hopping) It would be far too easy to run off and heal.
Realizing you (at least as necessary) explained that, I don’t see too many ways to change that without increasing the strength of recklessly rushing with melee weapons (if anyone could think of some I’d love to hear them).

"what can be considered meta is also stale to begin with, there are not many viable choices, let’s have a look at the options

wings
tabi
shield
scarf
stone x3
frog"

that’s completely right, sadly, but a ban on worm scarf would at least make a few other accessories somewhat viable.
Mech Glove, emblems, quiver, etc. would become usable if someone were to prefer them over a stone. albeit, stone would still be the best option. buffing/nerfing accessories would fix this but I’m not sure how possible that really is…

Please do correct me if I’m wrong

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I am against the Worm Scarf ban.
I also disagree with this notation that everything will remain relatively the same and we will just get a free slot.

The most likely accessory to take its place, as many people mentioned, would be another stone.
Since the stones give a 10% boost to melee speed, melee kits (Paladin’s Hammer anyone?) will be even stronger.
If people were going to replace the stone with another accessory, they could have replace two of the existing ones. Adding another stone isn’t going to change this.

Melee kits (well really just Solar I guess) already dominates PvP, banning worm scarf would just make it worse.
Solar currently has the best defense, arguably the best form of damage migration, high melee speed, AND high melee damage.
Compared to the old meta with the 1.3 iframes, we have even less choice in regards to armour selection; at least back then Beetle was kinda viable.

Also, did you guys get around to unbanning Vortex Helmet and Leggings?
While you can get similar damage with a different loadout, the defense really suffers. Rangers are squishy enough as is.
Would give Range kits a nice boost.

Valhalla breastplate will also likely meet the ban-hammer

WTF avery?!?
First u kill my waifu the Rainbow Crystal Staff.
Now u out to kill my Valhalla bae?

Y u hate summoner PvP?

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An important possibility (not yet explored) to consider is that accessories can be buffed/debuffed in a few ways:

  • Add/remove buffs that come with them
  • Increase/reduce damage alteration
  • Increase/reduce projectile velocity alteration
  • Increase/reduce defense alteration

The way these could work is much similar to how the alterations to projectile/weapons work at the moment.

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Not sure if nerfing Worm Scarf will change anything.
If it’s still good nothing changes, if it’s bad then switch to one of the Stones.
Perhaps the Stones need to be nerfed too.
Though this would be good for vanity, I do enjoy WS for my fashion.

Also, could the same alteration be applied to armours?
Because Solar is extremely dominant and centralizing.
I really don’t want to imagine throwing another Stone into the current meta.

Though I will be honest, I am not really a fan of too many alterations.
Alterations, especially ones to velocity, really changes how a weapon plays, essentially making a new weapon.
This is going to make getting into PvP harder and harder for newer players.
Then again, new players don’t really seem interested in PvP anymore…

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(Remember when I said worm scarf is the most controversial thing on the list? well here we are)

Imho, I prefer to make more options viable than remove the best ones, but I see worm scarf as an exception because the damage reduction is extremely backbone to most sets, but whether that’s a bad thing or not is hard to decide.

View A: Worm scarf is making a tank meta happen a long with Solar armor and it’s too good/must-use, so it needs to be removed or changed in some way

View B: The replacement if worm scarf were to be removed is another stone, and without worm scarf any squishy sets would become less viable than they were

Its extremely tricky to figure out a solution to this issue, because both views are correct.

The best thing to do, would be as Popstarfreas said, nerf it. How? possibly a reduction to the damage reduction to make it more in the line of the endurance potion perhaps, and buffs/nerfs to certain other accessories around the changes.

This is still controversial because that solve might skew the meta too much and, as Metaception said, make getting into pvp much harder

At this point we need a genius to figure out the best way to handle this -__-

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This may be controversial but I was wondering what people thought on the mandatory buffing. As far as I can tell, without permabuffs, people are required to buff upon every spawn, making it simply a boring repetitive task. The other problem is newer people who do not understand buffs well enough to know they are important. Either buffing of certain buffs can be automatic regardless of rank (guest or not), or their effect can be nullified. Unless everyone without permabuffs enjoys the task.

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I think that would be a good idea, as losing buffs and having to re-buff can be annoying at times.

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as for the tank meta issue, I keep saying this, but removal of the 6th accessory will help. It won’t lower it to what we want I imagine, but it’ll still help greatly. I already explained why so I won’t bother to explain again

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I think banning the regen items and autobuffs would go a long way to making PvP more fun and approachable.

I think testing how these two changes for now should be enough.
These seem fairly uncontroversial.
Oh, also please unban the Vortex Helmet and Leggings (Apologies if u already did this).
The set-bonus should be the issue so banning the chest should be enough (Red Riding Hood Chest is better anyways).

For more radical ideas:
Going off Blanc’s suggestion, maybe PvP can be in non-expert mode?
Then we would only have 5 slots.
More weapons would be viable without massive tweaking.
And the Solar and melee should get a sizable nerf.
Weapon damage might have to be adjusted though.

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banning regen items wouldn’t change how hard it is to kill someone in a one on one situation enough to make a huge difference, so along with that change normal mode would really make the difference there
As for banning autobuffs, what do you mean? like Solar shields? or something else?

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