[What is the actual item/mechanic/thing being targeted?]
Tome of Infinite Wisdom
[What would you like specifically changed about it?]
Reduce the velocity of the right-click (Whirlwind) attack.
[Why do you feel that this change is needed?]
The Whirlwind attack is incredibly spammable, deals a lot of damage, has way too much range, and covers a lot of area despite the fact that it sticks to the ground. The range part is the worst, because the whirlwind travels until it hits a wall, meaning it can cross an entire arena. The range combined with the velocity makes it hard to dodge, and again, it deals a lot of damage and is spammable.
[Anything else you would like to note]
The reason i suggested a velocity nerf over a damage nerf is because despite the fact that it covers a lot of area, itâs still tricky to hit reliably, so i think you should still be able to get good reward if youâre able to catch someone with the whirlwind attack.
Also, i donât know if the projectile velocity is editable without editing the velocity of the left click attack, if so, thatâs a valid reason to deny this suggestion.
To be honest I donât see it abused as much as before, but then again I donât pvp as much now either. Wouldnât decreasing the 2nd attackâs velocity just render the entire weapon useless? Its main attack seems powerful, but the velocity is slower than a lot of the other better mid range weapons, and while it has the potential to double hit I doubt anyone can reliably do that, especially in a duel. But the main focus is the 2nd attack, I get that. It definitely has spam potential but considering its minimum damage is 55 and its max is 108, you would have to be rocking either a full mage or relatively fragile mixed kit to really reach its potential wouldnât you? Most people who would spam it donât even have the survivability to become a real threat, and honestly it feels like a troll weapon when Iâve seen more experienced players use it. It just feels that you would have to sacrifice your dignity to resort to using such an attack regularly. While I voted for your velocity nerf suggestion, I donât think either way itâs going to be really game changing as I donât see many people using it consistantly aside from Johuan I think. Idk maybe Iâm wrong, let me know if thatâs the case lol.
my reputation for pvp suggestions hasnât exactly been spotless so far (and has been insulted multiple times), so I deeply apologize if Blanc rejects this right on the spot when he sees I voted for it.
But yeah, I agree, The tornado is insanely spammy, covers a large area, and does sizeable damage too. While most will say âstay away from the groundâ, tome of wisdom also falls from blocks too, meaning they can fire it above you and you will get nailed. Less velocity will make it easier to dodge, and honestly I would even consider a slight damage buff if the velocity was nerfed, to make it more rewarding if you did manage to hit somebody.
Theyâre different projectiles so it should be, if theres a different issue with it the left click attack definitely is a seperate projectile so he could buff that and nerf the actual weapon velocity to accordance
Personally, I donât think it should be nerfed, as it scarcely sees any usage in PvP â or at least under my purview. Compared to many mage weapons, itâs not exactly stellar in terms of damage, mana usage, projectile speed, use-time, or reliability. It belongs to a niche of weapons that requires the player to dedicate themselves to a glass-cannon playstyle, because these types of weapons simply arenât all that effective in any other type of loadout.
The Tome of Infinite Wisdomâs base damage is 55. For reference, the Laser Rifle has a base damage of 64 and the Heat Ray has a base damage of 46 â and both of them have a faster projectile velocity and a quicker use-time than both of the Tome of Infinite Wisdomâs attacks. The only reason why it even has potential is because the large, decently quick, wall-piercing projectile of its secondary attack that has a high damage cap and falls toward and travels along the ground. Because of this, I posit that most players use the Tome of Infinite Wisdom as an area coverer, a wall-piercer, and a ground-sweeper.
As of now, there are plenty of other weapons that are simply more effective at covering a wide area without requiring specialization. An infamous example of this is the Tsunami, which has the boasts projectiles that can reliably sustain itself in almost any direction. As a weapon that covers area, the Tome of Infinite Wisdom is a poor manâs Tsunami, especially since its projectile slopes downward which limits its effectiveness to only a specific circumstance where the opponent is below you. Even then, there are plenty of weapons which can do this better while also providing themselves to more general usage.
In regards to it having a wall-piercing projectile, there are plenty of other weapons that pierce walls and are more reliable at dealing a substantial amount of damage to an opponent such as the Stellar Tune and the Solar Eruption. Not only that, but the fact that the Tome of Infinite Wisdom has a falling projectile is a liability when it comes to its use as a wall-piercer, since it doesnât have the omni-directional capabilities of other weapons of the same niche.
As players get better as PvP, they start avoiding the ground. Because of this, the Tome of Infinite Wisdomâs ground-traveling projectile really only poses a threats to the uninitiated. Even then, there are many far superior weapons that can reliably deal damage to opponents on the ground.
Simply put, I believe the opportunity cost of using the Tome of Infinite Wisdom is too high. It can be an effective weapon if you debilitate yourself by sacrificing both your survivability and the effective capability of other non-magic weapons; but this in itself is a passive, indirect nerf to using the weapon.
A few issues with this post Iâd just like to clarify, not to belittle, insult, or speak down on FAda, but to keep the info being talked about as accurate and relevant as I can manage.
You are free to fact-check anything I say and inform me upon doing so should your findings reflect differently than I state.
Beetles reasoning =/= my reasoning, and this suggestion is significantly older than the post weâre discussing on currently. The meta was vastly different then, namely with armor values.
Weapons also arent nerfed in a void, theyâre often compared to other tools around them to see how viable they are, which again may help explain why this older suggestion was denied, but this one should still be checked thoroughly by myself (and everyone else interested in making balance suggestions and discussion).
At the time I didnât think it needed a nerf, but this changed over time which leads me toâŚ
This is again a mistake.
The projectile had its damage reverted as with its velocity, I donât generally like having to juggle two numbers at once for seemingly no reason so I reverted much of the tome of infinite wisdom projectile buffs in favor of putting most of it onto the main weapon itself.
I believe this was overall a bit of a nerf for the tornado and a bit of a buff for the papers, if you look up Tome on the projectile tab you can find their changelog.
This is true, but irrelevant.
If a weapon is only really good in a glass cannon kit but itâs to the degree of feeling unfair or toxic to fight, it should still be handled. Damage caps is one of the ways we deal with this, as is velocity.
Even if a kit has to give up a substantial amount of defense for said weapons to be strong, it may oftentimes be simply unfun to fight against. I usually donât act on these cases as itâs subjective, but thatâs a rule of thumb, and isnât something Iâm afraid of going against
If you can acknowledge that this is the case, why do you compare it with Laser Rifle and Heat Ray?
Neither of these weapons serve the function of what Tome of Infinite Wisdom does directly, at least not the tornado, therefore they donât fight for the same hotbar slot. Their damage is only comparable in a vacuum, but we all know how accurate that is for real in-game scenarios.
I donât need an actual explanation donât worry, Iâm just stating that you sort of prove yourself that the points youâre making about this weapon not needing a nerf or similar arenât fully thought through.
Laser Rifle supremacy! Down with Heat Ray!
You had your shot at talking about Golden Shower, the mage alternative to Tsunami, but regardless both of these weapons are similar only in their function as âcoverageâ - the way they cover area is very different and thus their usecases differ further than both being coverage.
I think itâs a bit different than a poor mans Tsunami.
I agree with this generally, however if you go in-game and look at the size of the tornado created by said weapon, youâll see that itâs quite simply large enough to cover 60 ~ 90% of a significant amount of chokepoints reliably and easily. Itâs limited to the ground, but the projectile size is large enough that itâs less of a limitation as much as it is a quirk of the weapon that you have to get used to a bit.
Well said.
If everything else you had said there had been more accurate youâd be dead on the nose, but take what Iâve seen and stated into account and Iâm not so sure.
Mage is in a powerful spot right now, and unfortunately, Iâm a little bit preoccupied with a few tasks taking up most of my free time, but when I have some more time in a few days Iâm going to spend a bunch of time online looking at mage kits and comparing them.
Tome of Infinite Wisdom will be checked appropriately with these kits, I think a velocity nerf would serve fine to make the weapon more manageable without making its utility any worse realistically.
I actually thought about talking about this and the Razorpine, but as far as I know, neither of them see common usage in PvP. A far more divisive and renown example of a weapon that covers this niche is the Tsunami despite not being a mage weapon, which is why I chose it as the example.
